Thanks, well, I pretty much only use Firefox for Youtube, and that is with Browse Mode turned off, although lately Youtube has been working better in IE.
On 10/9/2017 3:00 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote: > Hi Nick, > > Yes, the workaround no longer helps. > > Best, > > Rod > > -----Original Message----- > From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail....@lists.window-eyes.com] > On Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk > Sent: October 9, 2017 1:32 PM > To: Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> > Cc: Nick Sarames <nicksara...@msn.com> > Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility > > Did you try the work-around (control-n)? > > On 10/9/2017 1:29 PM, Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk wrote: >> Maybe that's what happened, but I'm not sure of that. >> A new 56.01 update was available when I checked this morning. I am going >> to reboot and try again, but my first finding with this new minor update >> is that browse mode is no longer available anywhere in Firefox. You can >> still read the menus and can tab to items, but are not even offered the >> possibility of opening browse mode with Window-Eyes. The plot thickens! >> >> >> >> Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD >> http://lras.home.sprynet.com >> -----Original Message----- From: Rod Hutton via Talk >> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 1:24 PM >> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >> Cc: Rod Hutton >> Subject: RE: Latest Firefox, and accessibility >> >> Hi David, >> >> I can certainly confirm that your workaround, namely, to open another >> tab, wherein Window-Eyes works as before. >> My guess is that, on startup, the set file is not associated with the >> browser window, but, rather, with the Firefox application window. >> I've run into this problem before, when, all of a sudden, focus got lost >> and stuck in the application window, since this is all I heard when I >> read the title bar. >> This hadn't happened for some time, and we'll see what happens now that >> I can begin testing it again. >> Thanks so much for your effort in diagnosing this problem, and we'll >> report back our experiences. >> >> All the best, >> >> Rod >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Talk >> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail....@lists.window-eyes.com] On >> Behalf Of David via Talk >> Sent: October 8, 2017 8:31 AM >> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>; Lloyd >> Rasmussen <l...@sprynet.com> >> Cc: David <trailerda...@hotmail.com> >> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility >> >> Seems this is going to be the kind of never-ending story. >> >> >> This morning, I had to restart my computer for some reason. After >> rebooting, all the sudden I do see the same behavior in Firefox, as >> reported by others. You can turn off Browse mode, and tab around the >> website. You can reach all the menus. But with browse mode turned on, >> there is absolutely no luck in having WinEyes read anything to you. >> >> >> Now, i would not let this throw me off. I have been experimenting quite >> a bit here now, and here is at least some kind of a workaround. Wonder >> if some of you - who have trouble with Firefox 56 - please could report >> back if you see the same behavior. >> >> >> 1. Open Firefox. >> >> 2. Open any website of your choice, by typing in the address in the >> address bar, and hitting enter, just like you have always done. >> >> 3. The site comes up, but you cannot navigate it with WinEyes. >> >> 4. Try turn off Browse mode, and now use tab. Do you hear the different >> links and controls spoken? >> >> >> Then the workaround. >> >> 1. with all firefox windows closed, open Firefox, and direct it to any >> website you might like. >> >> 2. Hit Ctrl-N, and a new session of Firefox will open in a separate window. >> >> 3. In this new window, open any website you desire - even the very same >> one you opened in the first window. >> >> 3. The website in the new ((or second) window, can be navigated just >> like ever before. >> >> 4. Go back to the first window you had opened with Firefox, and close it >> with F4. >> >> 5. From here, keep navigating Firefox as much as you like, in the newest >> window. You even can open as many windows and tabs as you want, and >> WinEyes seems to work just fine. >> >> >> The ones of you, who have been able to work with Firefox 56 so far, have >> you rebooted your computer after updating to this version? If not, I am >> starting to wondering if there could be something going on. >> >> >> Why I had to reboot my computer this morning, was because I had started >> Jaws, and it reported that an update for version 18.04 was available. >> After updating, it requested the computer rebooted. >> >> >> Funny thing is, that yesterday my WinEyes worked perfectly well with >> Firefox 56. This morning, updating Jaws and then rebooting the computer, >> my WinEyes starts to have trouble with Firefox. >> >> >> Sure, it all would be coincidents, wouldn't it? And of course, we could >> go on asking if anyone who are having no trouble with WinEyes in >> Firefox, also do not have Jaws installed, or even have not updated their >> Jaws version. i would have been willing to uninstall Jaws, just to make >> sure there is no cross-over issues, but would that not cause me to use >> an extra Jaws installation when reinstalling it on the computer? Or, >> does Jaws recognize it has already been installed here before, and hence >> abstain from counting the new reinstallation against my three available >> installations under the license? I really would have been willing to >> say, there would be no way for Jaws to interfere, all the time only >> WinEyes is loaded on the computer. But still, it all makes me wonder a bit. >> >> >> OK, I could live with the extra hazzle, of always opening a Firefox >> session, and then hitting Ctrl-n, and start my browsing from the new >> session. The thing that now puzzles me, is why things work in the second >> session, but never in the first, of Firefox. Could that be due to some >> bug in the browser, or is the second session opening with different >> settings - deep down in the hundreds of settings of the browser? Wonder >> if a report to Mozilla would bring some clarification here, but not sure >> where or how to submit any bug report to the Mozilla team. >> >> >> To spin a little bit further on the whole issue, I did try Firefox in >> its dedicated safe mode, and there I was able to navigate with WinEyes. >> it of course might all be due to some kind of add-on, that troubles >> WinEyes in the newest Firefox version. But that all will have to be >> determined through intensified further investigation. >> >> >> Till now, these are my findings, and I hope others can contribute with >> further findings, confirmations and ideas for solutions. Somehow seems >> we have to trace exactly what causes the issue, before we can start >> determining if WinEyes and Firefox 56+ can ever be made to work >> hand-in-hand. >> >> >> All just for your information. >> >> >> On 10/7/2017 7:02 PM, Evan Reese via Talk wrote: >>> That was me, using WE 8.4 on a Windows 7 laptop with Firefox 56.0 32 bit. >>> I just had it open and went to three different sites, including the >>> BARD site. It works the same as always for me. >>> Evan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk >>> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 9:32 AM >>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >>> Cc: Lloyd Rasmussen >>> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility >>> >>> I am puzzled that someone reported that Firefox 56 worked with >>> Win-Eyes 8.4. >>> It doesn't work for me with Win-Eyes 9.5.4. >>> David, Browse mode is available, but you get nothing but dings when >>> you move >>> the arrow keys, and no output when you use the Tab or shift-Tab key. >>> You can >>> read the menus. You can read anything you can tab to while browse mode is >>> turned off. Sometimes Firefox.set doesn't seem to load, but even when it >>> does, the situation remains the same. >>> I'm running Windows 7 64-bit, but the 32-bit version of Firefox is what >>> wants to run. I believe I tried disabling add-ons also, with no effect. I >>> get most of the same results on a different computer running Windows 10. >>> And even if we didn't have trouble with Firefox version 56, we are pretty >>> much guaranteed to have trouble with FF 57 which comes out next month. >>> I like Firefox, but if I'm going to continue to use it, it will have >>> to be >>> with NVDA, JAWS or Narrator for Windows 10. >>> Everyone should read the latest blog from Marco Zehe to understand >>> more of >>> what is going on: >>> https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD >>> http://lras.home.sprynet.com >>> -----Original Message----- From: David via Talk >>> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 8:14 AM >>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >>> Cc: David >>> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility >>> >>> Pure guessing here. >>> >>> >>> When the Firefox window comes up, are you able to access the menus? If >>> so, Go to Help, and scroll down to >>> >>> Start with add-ons disabled, >>> >>> and press Enter. This should let Firefox start in its own safe-mode; >>> which btw does have nothing to do with Windows safe-mode. You can read >>> more here: >>> >>> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-firefox-issues-using-safe-mode >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Alternatively, they say you should be able to do it via the start menu. >>> >>> 1. Press Win-R, and type: >>> >>> Firefox -safe-mode >>> >>> (please notice the dashes). >>> >>> 2. Press Enter, and the Firefox should open in a safe-mode window. >>> >>> I have not tested either of these aproaches, so take it for what a >>> search on the net is worth. >>> >>> >>> I further take it, that you have done the two obvious things: >>> >>> 1. Make sure Browse mode is turned ON, by pressing Ctrl-Shift-A. I am >>> ready to presume, that you will have a message spoken to you, saying: >>> >>> Browse Mode Is Not Available. >>> >>> 2. Check that the correct set file is loaded. Press Insert-L, and it >>> should say >>> >>> Firefox.set. >>> >>> >>> To me, it could seem like you have some kind of a message window that >>> opens when you open Firefox, and which get the thing stucked. if you >>> press Ctrl-Shift-T, does it tell you a website, or does it say >>> About:Blank, and then Firefox? Alternatively, does it say something like: >>> >>> Firefox Message? >>> >>> If the latter, there is a message on the screen, which you might have >>> varying luck in reading. You could try hitting the Ctrl-Shift-W twice, >>> to have WinEyes do its most aggressive reading of the full window. >>> >>> >>> >>> Even loading NVDA, while you are on the Firefox window, with WinEyes >>> still running. What does NVDA do? Is it able to navigate anything, or >>> even read any messages to you, that WinEyes was unable to pick up? >>> >>> >>> Lastly, do you have two eyes there? Do they see anything on the screen? >>> Like if you load a website, are they able to read the contents? Somwhere >>> in the WinEyes control panel - and forgive me for not remembering >>> exactly where - I do hold there is a setting for turning on a small >>> window, indicating to a sighted person what exactly you are seeing with >>> the screen reader. Have never used the feature myself, so not sure how >>> helpful it would be. But it might be useful enough to determining if the >>> screen reader has gone for a hike in the cyber mountains, due to some >>> Firefox food that Eloquence disagrees in. Once you have chased the >>> reason for your issue, you might want to hold a KitCat up in front of >>> the screen reader, and see if Eloquence could please get into a better >>> mood. Smiles. >>> >>> >>> For now, these are my best guesses. Perhaps your reporting back any >>> results of the suggestions might help others in guiding you further. >>> Since seemingly some users are having issues and others not, it seems >>> something in the newer versions of Firefox might be triggering certain >>> setups. This could be worth reporting to the Mozilla team, in hope they >>> might have some logs that could tell what changes in settings and >>> behavior probably causing the issues. But prior to doing any reporting >>> to them, it might be worth an attempt in tracing the exact issue. >>> >>> >>> Of course, many might argue that NVDA and Jaws do not have any issues. >>> Be as it might. Apparently there must be something that causes WinEyes >>> to have its hickups, on certain systems. Could we trace the health >>> issue, we might be able to remedy the WinEyes disease. Smiles. >>> >>> >>> Just for the fun of it, in Firefox under Help, try pressing Enter on the >>> item that says: >>> >>> Health Report. >>> >>> What do you get there? Should give you some technical information. >>> Likely nothing important in this case, but just to see if it at all >>> could tell anything for further tracing. It at least would report if any >>> of your Add-ons have caused Firefox to get an aching toe. In such a >>> case, offering it a donut and a cup of coffee for free, might cheer it >>> up a bit. Smiles. >>> >>> >>> Sorry for not being of all that much help, and hope you don't mind my >>> sense of humor on an early Saturday morning. >>> >>> >>> On 10/7/2017 1:04 PM, bj colt via Talk wrote: >>>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> I followed your instructions but got the same ding noise I get when >>>> firefox upgrqades to the latest version. I am running the 32 bit >>>> version. >>>> >>>> I pressed alt d, then f6. The same ding. Like being in an edit box >>>> that is stuck there. All I hear is ding. I have uninstalled firefox 3 >>>> times since last night and each time firefox has upgraded. Even though >>>> I have it set not to upgrade. >>>> >>>> It is strange how some people aring this phenomenon and others aren't. >>>> My friend is running firefox, same version as I am. windows 7. pentium >>>> processor, 500 ghz hard drive. 8 gig ram. All very wierd. >>>> >>>> It does seem like a focus problem but what and why? >>>> >>>> Live long and prosper, John >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: David via Talk >>>> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 11:02 AM >>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; WE English Mailinglist >>>> Cc: David >>>> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility >>>> >>>> Forgot to say, I am still running Windows7 pro 64bit, in case the OS >>>> might be the bottleneck. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/7/2017 12:01 PM, David via Talk wrote: >>>>> I do not want to start a new lengthy arguing over accessibility issues. >>>>> Yet, a few days ago, we had a discussion running here, as to the latest >>>>> version of Firefox - 56 - which some users had experienced issues with. >>>>> >>>>> I did not have any intention in running into accessibility issues, and >>>>> hence told my Firefox never to update. It is done under tools, Options, >>>>> Advanced, and choose the update tab. Nevertheless, this morning when >>>>> starting my Firefox, it still updated itself. I got the message on the >>>>> screen, that the update was taking place, and though I could say a few >>>>> things about a setting in the Firefox options, which apparently is >>>>> nothing but useless - I had no choice but to let the update complete >>>>> itself. My reasoning was that first it insisted on upgrading, I could >>>>> always roll it back afterwards. >>>>> >>>>> When the upgrading was finished, I checked under Tools, Help, About - >>>>> and the current installation says >>>>> >>>>> Firefox 56.0, 32bit. >>>>> >>>>> I now have used it for a couple of hours, browsing around, and do >>>>> see no >>>>> trouble with this version of Firefox, along with the latest (and last) >>>>> version of WinEyes, that is, version 9.5.4. >>>>> >>>>> I do recall there has been a few comments about the 64bit version of >>>>> Firefox from the past. And hence i was wondering if the users who told >>>>> us not to update to the latest Firefox, due to their accessibility >>>>> issues, would happen to be running the 64bit version. >>>>> >>>>> As an alternative, in attempting to see a reason for some experiencing >>>>> trouble in latest version, I do wonder if there could be a focusing >>>>> issue. Would any of you, who initially reported the loss of >>>>> accessibility in Firefox 56, maybe want to try the following. >>>>> 1. Open Firefox, and go to any website. >>>>> 2. Press Alt-D, as in Delta. >>>>> 3. Press F6. >>>>> 4. Try navigating the website. >>>>> Are you still unable to perform any action on the page? If so, check >>>>> under Help/About,and see if you are running 64- or 32bit version. >>>>> Please >>>>> note, a 32bit software can be run perfectly well on a 64bit machine, >>>>> but >>>>> you cannot run a 64bit software on a 32bit computer. Most computers now >>>>> aday, are 64bit machines, and yet, often you are encouraged to run the >>>>> 32bit software, due to the 64bit technology being more vulnerable for >>>>> technical issues. >>>>> >>>>> This is no attempt in advicing anyone, in their choice of browser or >>>>> version. I am just curious why some have reported their systems facing >>>>> issues, whereas my system had none. Could it even be there was >>>>> something >>>>> going wrong in your updating process? Or, could it be due to some of >>>>> the >>>>> add-ons you have installed under Firefox, and which no longer are >>>>> up-to-date, due to the new add-on policy of the Mozilla group? Try >>>>> starting your Firefox with all Add-ons disabled, and see if that solves >>>>> any issues. >>>>> >>>>> Really, it would be bad, should a number of users ditch an otherwise >>>>> good browser, or abstain from updating, due to some misunderstood >>>>> accessibility issues. That's why, I decided to report my findings, >>>>> hoping to hear from others who could shed further light on what >>>>> possibly >>>>> could cause issues for some. Perhaps we even could help them solve >>>>> their >>>>> issues, and have them back up running the Firefox browser again; even >>>>> with last version of WinEyes. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>>> >>>>> For membership options, visit >>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> For subscription options, visit >>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>>> List archives can be found at >>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>> >>>> For membership options, visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/bjcolt%40blueyonder.co.uk. >>>> >>>> >>>> For subscription options, visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> List archives can be found at >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>> >>>> For membership options, visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. >>>> >>>> >>>> For subscription options, visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> List archives can be found at >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author >>> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/lras%40sprynet.com. >>> >>> >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/mentat1%40dslextreme.com. >>> >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. >>> >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> . >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/rod_hutton%40hotmail.com. >> >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/lras%40sprynet.com. >> >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/nicksarames%40msn.com. >> >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> 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