TLDR; Please read my previous email, and lets discuss the actual tool, its
capabilities, and how it can fit and add value to OSM ecosystem, while
minimizing potential negatives.
Frederik, I have offered to have a direct video conversation with you to
better understand your concerns, explain my goals, and bring it back into
productive scope, but no luck yet. I still hope you are more interested in
resolving our differences than having a public tribune. Lets not spend
hours on emails, but try to understand each other's concerns in a private
conversation, without involving the entire world. I am sure what you think
I am trying to do is substantially different from what I actually am trying
to do, and my understanding of your concerns is also different from your
actual concerns.
If there is a large group of people who are trying to do something
different from your strongly held believes, it means they have a problem
you might not be aware about. In your example, "kick foreigners out" is a
symptom of a problem - possibly related to people's insecurity or lack of
education. Vilifying them and calling their ideas outrageous makes us feel
righteous and united, but does not solve the actual problem or changes what
they think - it actually exacerbates it, because both sides become more
entrenched in their believes.
So yes, I do want to keep our conversation constructive (not positive!) -
understand concerns on all sides, and provide the most value to everyone
involved.
On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 2:57 AM, Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 07.11.2017 07:29, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> > Please keep discussion to constructive suggestions and ideas - they help
> > us all move forward and reach agreement.
>
> I have a general remark about statements like the above, that is not
> related to your specific tool.
>
> Statements like this are aimed at silencing opposition. But that is
> neither fair, nor right, nor a good way for a community to move forward.
> Opposition must be allowed, and people who are in opposition must not be
> cast as "negative" (="bad").
>
> Just imagine if someone suggested something outrageous ("Let's deport
> all foreigners from or village") and then if someone says "no", they are
> told: "Please keep discussion to constructive suggestions and ideas".
> ("If you have a better idea on how to get rid of foreigners, we're all
> ears!")
>
> There are many ideas that are broken beyond repair, where the basic
> tenets are already so wrong that no constructive suggestion can ever
> make it good. Rejecting such ideas is good, and a valuable contribution.
>
> Please don't try to silence opposing voices by limiting discussion to
> "constructive suggestions".
>
> As I said, this is not aimed specifically at you; I think the last time
> I said it was in a discussion about a tree import where the importers
> asked critics to simply take their energy elsewhere instead of being
> "negative" about the import.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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