John, not trusting a brand name and being unreasonable about new project
are two different things. One is a healthy caution. The other is a
baseless witch hunt, at which point it doesn't matter what the person does,
what matters are the pitch forks and torches.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 1:19 PM, john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >There were many OSM edits I have done in the past. Some of them might
> have broken the rules. How does that relate to the new tool discussion?
> The conversation was about the new tool that does things the same way as
> several other tools.
>
> How does that break "unwritten rules"?
>
> It relates to trust and politics with a small p. Your brand name is
> untrusted.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 18 November 2017 at 13:11, Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrak...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> James, this is not about hurt feelings. This is about misrepresentation.
>>
>> Last week I re-wrote Sophox tool based on the community feedback. The new
>> tool uses the same approaches as existing tools. Yet, somehow I violated
>> some unwritten rule by creating a new tool? This is bogus.
>>
>> There were many OSM edits I have done in the past. Some of them might
>> have broken the rules. How does that relate to the new tool discussion?
>> The conversation was about the new tool that does things the same way as
>> several other tools.
>>
>> How does that break "unwritten rules"?
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:24 AM, James <james2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Seriously this is what 2017 has become? A bunch of snowflakes argueing
>>> whoes feelings are hurt? Seriously grow up people, the world is not full of
>>> cupcakes and rainbows.
>>>
>>> "Yuri is perceived by many as unreasonable as before and tries to ignore
>>> all the unwritten rules in OSM."
>>>
>>> I was somewhat following that email thread and there were many people
>>> sayong that yuri was unreasonable and that he was ignoring the rules for
>>> mechanical edits. Journalists are allowed to summarize the general tone of
>>> a situation without being perceived as "taking sides".
>>>
>>> On Nov 17, 2017 10:49 PM, "Clifford Snow" <cliff...@snowandsnow.us>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andy,
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Andy Townsend <ajt1...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 17/11/2017 22:52, Clifford Snow wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Frederik,
>>>>> I think we are all thankful for the newsletter. And believe they are
>>>>> free to publish to their own standards. However, because they use OSM
>>>>> resources by publishing on our mailing lists they need respect our values.
>>>>> I don't think asking a publication to be respectful to individuals is
>>>>> asking too much.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Clifford,
>>>>> Being "respectful" is a two-way street. This is a situation that's
>>>>> been going on for almost exactly a year now. During that time this
>>>>> individual has shown contempt for the OSM community, including on occasion
>>>>> telling outright untruths. Conversations with him were very repectful at
>>>>> first (conducted in changeset discussions rather than on mailing lists),
>>>>> but it gradually became clear that any statements such as "I have already
>>>>> stopped changing any objects except" were simply worthless. At some point
>>>>> you have to call a lie a lie, and I can't think of a way of doing that
>>>>> without "being disrespectful".
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely. I'm only suggesting that as a community we strive to be
>>>> respectful to everyone, all the time. That in no way mean that we condone
>>>> bad behavior. I'm all for calling out such behavior even to the point of
>>>> expelling/banning the person if reasonable attempts to get the person to
>>>> change is futile. My basic belief is that all people have good intentions.
>>>> Our community goal should be to bring out the best in everyone.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, I have to object to the use of "they" and "our" in your
>>>>> comment. The OSM Weekly is produced by and for people from the OSM
>>>>> community, exactly the same community that the mailing lists are run by
>>>>> and
>>>>> for. The use of that sort of divisive language ("they") reminds me of a
>>>>> visit to South Africa back in the 90s, and not in a good way.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the poor choice of words. Now you see why I don't offer to
>>>> edit or write for the OSM Weekly. My grandfather, a former newspaper
>>>> editor, would have been sadden by my lack of writing abilities.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Clifford
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> @osm_seattle
>>>> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
>>>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>>>>
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>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
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