3. srsly?! | Re: I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up
office hours for questions (Rory McCann)
Good afternoon everybody,
I pay attention only occasionally to the talk-list, but this message
resonated in Geochicas and made me (us) feel attacked, from the tone and
expressions chosen by Frederik Ramm. Regardless of the point you try to
defend, the tone and care with the expression is a basic principle of
coexistence in a community of which permanence and renewal are so
important, as in Openstreetmap. And it sounds completely incredible to me
to read this, when so few weeks ago many were wondering (honestly?) how to
increase the diversity of participation on the board (and we have the same
concern for Openstreetmap in general). As Geochicas, we have participated
on Twitter in this collective reflection, where it seemed to me that few
people really wanted to understand the reasons why few women participate
and apply for activities such as being a board member. As if it will only
be about inviting and convincing. We are precisely in the presence of an
expression of the problem: a frankly demotivating tone to enter this type
of dialogue. And I find it especially serious that this occurs in a circle
of (ex, present and future) members of the board.
There is a code of conduct in OSM, it is surprising to remember it by now.
When looking for it in other no less serious circumstances, I could see
that it exists in a non-definitive version, which lets me understand that
it has not been a central work issue in OSM.
Given that, and the Geochicas survey demonstrates it, coexistence behaviors
in all OSM channels are a central vector of inclusion or exclusion, I
invite you, board members, to consider the Code of Conduct as a priority
OSM project : its promotion, its participatory consolidation, its
socialization, and its careful respect especially for those who are
spokespersons.
Thanks everyone
Mapeadora
El dom, 6 de dic. de 2020 a la(s) 06:21, <talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org>
escribió:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Please review "Community attribution advice” wiki page
> (Joseph Eisenberg)
> 2. weeklyOSM #541 2020-11-24-2020-11-30 (weeklyteam)
> 3. srsly?! | Re: I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up
> office hours for questions (Rory McCann)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2020 10:31:32 -0800
> From: Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>
> To: Mateusz Konieczny <matkoni...@tutanota.com>
> Cc: osm <talk@openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Please review "Community attribution
> advice” wiki page
> Message-ID:
> <CAP_2vPhCX611n_T1Y=
> ierfn09pbg1qu0cyxkt+e+c82lfxj...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> The text of the first section previously ended with this sentence:
>
> "To what extent you might practically get away with lesser attribution -
> either legally or socially - is outside the scope of this document."
>
> Probably such a sentence is acceptable in some cultures, but it sounds odd
> in the Anglo-American legal context so I removed it.
>
> However, perhaps there is a more polite way to say the same sort of thing,
> without seeming to invite "getting away with it?"
>
> -- Joseph Eisenberg
>
> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 12:36 AM Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
> talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> > One thing that is missing to me is explicit mention that it is not
> > overriding ODBL or related laws and is not adding any legal
> > requirements.
> >
> > If someone follows ODBL license or is in situation where following
> license
> > is not needed for some reason, they can legally do this.
> >
> > Maybe also mention that it is may be recommending more attribution than
> > bare minimum that is required by ODBL, so it is a safe solution that
> should
> > be also fine for any typical[1] project that is not hostile to OSM?
> >
> > [1] "typical" - especially for very small objects things gets trickier,
> > if you are making some special purpose map (tactile map for blind)
> > then attribution also needs to be adapted, if map is going to be used
> > in place where English is not understood in general you will definitely
> > need to translate attribution etc etc.
> >
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Draft_Attribution_Guideline claim
> > that smartphone has not enough space for attribution is clearly untrue.
> > But if you show OSM map on screen of size 1cm x 1 cm or similarly tiny
> > physical object then alternative attribution methods - that still comply
> > with
> > ODBL - may be preferable.
> >
> > Dec 4, 2020, 21:41 by joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com:
> >
> > I appreciate the wik page "Community attribution advice" which was made
> > by another community member. It seems to give good advice about how
> > database users can comply with the attribution guidelines in a way that
> > everybody* in this community can support.
> >
> > Please review the page and make any comments for improvement if needed:
> >
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Community_attribution_advice
> >
> > -- Joseph Eisenberg
> >
> > (*Note that "everybody" does not include the interests of corporations,
> > which are not persons, but rather the interests of individual mappers and
> > database users)
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 06 Dec 2020 03:12:21 -0800 (PST)
> From: weeklyteam <theweekly....@gmail.com>
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #541 2020-11-24-2020-11-30
> Message-ID: <5fccbc95.1c69fb81.c23d3.f...@mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 541,
> is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of
> things happening in the openstreetmap world:
>
> https://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/14021/
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log
> in to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read
> more about how to write a post here:
> http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm
>
> weeklyOSM?
> who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages
> where?:
> https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 06 Dec 2020 12:45:18 +0100
> From: "Rory McCann" <r...@technomancy.org>
> To: "OSM Talk" <talk@openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: [OSM-talk] srsly?! | Re: I’m running for OSMF board and
> I’ve set up office hours for questions
> Message-ID: <34c52915-3aa9-446c-b157-7cafdbddf...@www.fastmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
>
> [ I've been trying to stay out of the election to the board, because as a
> current board member I'll be working with 3 of the candidates after the
> election, but I must respond to this. ]
>
> There are many examples of people excusing how Trump acted before the 2016
> election, claiming he would be “presidential” when elected, and you had to
> choose the example regarding sexual assault? Seriously?
>
> You could have pointed out Trump's nepotism (before & after election), his
> horrible business/economic skills, his brash, rude and condescening manner
> of speaking, his history of brazely lying, and you had to go with _that_
> example?
>
> While disregarding the OSM licence is bad, it is no way comparible to
> sexual assault. By equating the two, you're diminising the seriousness of a
> type of crime which is already treated too lightly by many cultures &
> communities, and which statistically disproportionally affects women &
> nonbinary people. I don't know what you intended to communicate, but people
> will hear someone who doesn't think sexual assault isn't very bad. People
> will think you're not to be trusted with issues like this. That's why it
> wasn't tone policing.
>
> I'm pretty sure Trump didn't think that action was loathsome BTW, why do
> you think he boasted about it? “Getting away with murder” has been used so
> much that we know it doesn't actually mean murder. One thing that causes
> that scandal with Trump is that we knew he was literally bragging about
> sexually assaulting people (that's in the first part of the quote too).
> Unfortuntaly intent isn't magic. I consider you a friend (and my boss), so
> I know you're a good guy, but plenty of people haven't met you and are
> gonna just have things like this to try to figure out who you are....
>
> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020, at 00:44, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 12/2/20 23:09, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:
> > > FB’s attribution to OSM is available to any viewer in a place that
> > > is commonly associated with attribution.
> > >
> > > Barely visible icon that must be clicked is not a standard place for
> > > attribution.
> >
> > Agree with Mateusz, and I'm just flabbergasted how someone can kick our
> > license in the groin and have the audacity to ask for the community to
> > thank them for it with a board seat, where they will be tasked with
> > upholding values they apparently don't share.
> >
> > If Mike Migurski at least had the decency to say: "Yeah, my employer
> > sucks with attribution, I know, and I'm trying to get it fixed." I
> > wouldn't believe him but at least he'd say something that is ok. But
> > instead he says "y'all suck with your baseless ideas of attribution,
> > please vote for me."
> >
> > Anyone who thinks that, once elected, Mike will put OSM's interests
> > before those of Facebook because that's his job as a board member, think
> > twice. People have thought the same about Donald Trump - yeah, this
> > whole grab-them-by-the-pussy talk is just showmanship and once elected
> > he'll be more presidential. But don't be fooled. Mike is going to grab
> > our licence by the pussy just as he promised he would, and he's being
> > paid a fine salary for that from one of the most disturbing mega-corps
> > on the planet.
> >
> > Bye
> > Frederik
> >
> > --
> > Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
>
>
>
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