Where the heck to begin. The posts of Charles and Gordon reflect most accurately the tango experience of this old lady, which some of you know began in 1986, first trip of many to BsAs in 1987, helping to develop the SF tango community from 1986 through the '90s. Al and i now live in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, where we have been teaching and promoting tango, with all attendant joys and frustrations, since 2004. These are some observations from the last 25 years:
What has been labeled "milonguero" tango, I prefer ("apilado" or "full-frontal"), was indeed being danced in 1986, in the center of the city in crowded dance halls such as Regin (now El Beso) and Salon Argentina, but was not taught by anyone, as far as I know, before Susana Miller started the franchise in 1994. For starters, please don't take the following as a rejection of any or all forms of close-embrace tango; I mean to defend Salon tango, not to denigrate any other social style, through clarifying what I know of tango history. The social style of the majority of barrios outside of the center but within city limits was what has been referred to on this list as Salon. By this I don't mean "open", but close and flexible. These barrios include but are not confined to Villa Urquiza, Mataderos, etc.; there were some differences between barrios. Variations of this style were taught by teachers who were considered milongueros such as Fino Ribera, Eduardo & Gloria, Todaro, Roberto Grassi, Raul Bravo, Lampazo, Pupi Castello et al. AND as well as teaching social moves some of them taught material only suitable for performance. Show or exhibition tango is not, and never was, considered the same as Salon style, but is obviously is an outgrowth of it. The idea that milongueros don't do exhibitions is naively mistaken; it is traditional to include an exhibition in a milonga at around 3 am, and competitions have been fiercely fought since the 19th century. What's more, in the '80s and still, some of those teaching were stage performers as well as social dancers, e.g. Eduardo and Gloria. Some were teachers and performers only and didn't go to the milongas (the Dinzels), and Copes, for example, taught performance tango complete with choreography What is important is that there was ALWAYS a distinction made by conscientious maestros between social tango suitable for a milonga as opposed to exhibition tango. We were made very clear about this by Danel and Maria Bastone, who had studied with Todaro in those years, as well as by Orlando Paiva. Everything taught was related to line of dance and floorcraft. No doubt there were and are plenty of unenlightened or unscrupulous teachers who don't explain and teach this difference, but that is not inherent in or confined to Salon style. Also, Salon style tango NEVER included non-tango stage or ballroom-dance moves such as lifts, drops, twirls, etc. Sorry, no pole-dancing, folks. In terms of teaching it has been our experience, as well as our regret, that students, after a good dose of the basics (and whether or not they are ready, which they aren't), Really Want to learn more dramatic moves, and an instructor can talk himself blue in the face without shaking their desire to do ganchos, carpas, even, to my dismay, volcadas. Without Exception this has been our teaching experience, and the choice is usually between teaching some additional material while constantly expanding on basic technique or seeing eager students quit tango. Also, it may be that studying a wider range of techniques can be valuable in revisiting more basic ones which appear so much easier but are actually infinitely more challenging. To keep dancing and continue learning individually with videos and/or pure observation requires out-of-the-ordinary talent, body awareness and dedication. (I've been trying this with classical guitar and it's unfortunately not working). A woman could maybe continue on her own (and several on this List have) by moving to BsAs and dancing nightly with carefully chosen partners, if she knows how to choose them and they will dance with her. That wouldn't work so well for a leader . . . So, Mario, instead of ranting against instructors for teaching more than walking, ochos, and simple turns, in close-embrace only, pride yourself on being one of the Exceptions we have not yet encountered. Come to Puerto Vallarta and show us :-) Bottom line, we would love any advice on how to convince students that they should stick to improving their basics for however many years it takes instead of learning "new" material . . . . As for whether Salon style can or should be danced in crowded milongas: it requires your control of space on the pista and navigation while concentrating on the music and the partner in your arms. It depends on you, but also on the space and shape of the floor, the quality and etiquette of other dancers, the music and mood of the evening. But so does every night at any milonga in the world, whatever style you prefer. Prospero 2011 to all, Barbara On 25/12/2010 11:47 a.m., Charles Roques wrote: > <<I agree with all that you say. But the point is that almost no one dances or > teaches > the style of Orlando Paiva anymore.>> > > Not true. I do and have for years, as also do others outside of Argentina. > Admittedly and sadly in a minority nowadays but it depends on which circle > you travel in. That is the problem on the Tango-L list; people arbitrarily > use labels without a knowledge of the history and beginner dancers blindly > accept those labels further spreading the confusion. Just because teachers > describe and teach the style of Murat and Michelle as tango de salon does not > make it correct. The real fault lies with the teachers spreading these labels > around. The fact that someone can go to a classic traditional milonga such > as Sin Rumbo and be surprised to see close-embrace dancing (something that > has been common there for years) says more about their knowledge and > experience than it does about the dancing at Sin Rumbo. > > Charles > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l