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On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:25:22 +0100, Jannik wrote these words of
wisdom:
ACM>> I should be able to follow the entire thread and be able to view
ACM>> all columns.
JL> Again, I'm not sure that this is a fair demand :-) Especially not
JL> if it is meant to go for the message list in the "main browser",
JL> as well as the one in the "Folder View".
I meant to be able to view the columns I wish to. I don't have all
columns enabled, only four and even then, it can be a problem. It's
not an unreasonable demand either since I view threads comfortably
when using either Agent, Gravity or X-News. None of them provide a
perfect solution but they're definitely more comfortable to use and
though I like Agent more than X-News overall, IMO, X-News offers the
best method.
JL> Besides, I still don't think this discussion has brought a program
JL> to light that does what you are asking here.
Oh yes. I always am able to see the columns I wish to see and go
through all threads when using either X-News, Agent or Gravity.
JL> Agent does *not* allow following any thread in it's entirety while
JL> at the same time retaining all columns - not if "following a
JL> thread" means: reading the messages in a thread in their proper
JL> "follow-up"-context.
I realize this and this is one of it's weaknesses. None of the
implementations are perfect but if there's one thing that annoys me,
it's to see the columns drifting as the thread expands and develops.
With Agent I trade threading clarity with for potential problems with
other threading methods as TB!'s.
Personally, I don't have a problem following threads when using
Agents. As long as the messages are cohesively grouped together by
references in descending order of their being posted is fine by me. I
don't really need to see exactly who posted to whom at the expense of
the other columns drifting out of view. I, however, do acknowledge
that reference threading showing all the follow-up levels is useful
and that X-News provides the better solution.
JL> 1) Annoying as it is, but would only happen when an expanding
JL> thread exceeded the follow-up limit in the model that we have
JL> agreed upon.
Yes.
JL> 2) Even more annoying. But, as you pointed out, this can already
JL> be solved (to a degree) in TB as it is by making room for the
JL> columns to move. But it is probably not possible to prevent it
JL> from happening *at all* given the basics of TB's way of doing
JL> things. With "our" model, though, it would only happen as the
JL> thread exceeded the limit set by the width of the threaded column.
One shouldn't have to work around an implementation. One should be
able to work with it. I find myself having to work around it. The
first method I used was to keep my common TBUDL/TBETA folder
relatively light by filtering out messages beyond a certain age. This
would prevent the presence of long threads. I now use the ticker
virtual folder. With Agent and X-News, I need no such work around. I
comfortably work with all threads, no matter their size and no column
drifts or drifts out of view.
JL> 3) The Ctrl+] shortcut is not available to me (with my Danish
JL> keyboard). I *do* have a shortcut for "Move to next unread",
JL> though, but it has never given me *any* kind of trouble. My
JL> problems arise when I use the right-arrow to unfold branches in a
JL> thread. What happens is this: I open a branch using this
JL> short-cut, but the first (or only) message in the branch are not
JL> part of a new branch, and before this has become clear to me, I
JL> press the right arrow again. But since there is no branch this
JL> shortcut now means: "Scroll to the right" and the whole message
JL> list moves! Are you sure that this is not what is happening to you
JL> as well?
No, this is not what I mean. CTRL+] will take you to the next unread
message, no matter in which thread it resides and how deep in the
thread it resides. The shortcut auto-expands and drills down
automatically to the next unread messages, going through the threads
in descending order.
An example would be:
I've finished reading the last new message in a thread and the next
new message happens to be the last message in a very long thread which
is at the moment collapsed. All columns are visible since I haven't
expanded any long threads. I now hit CTRL+] and the chaos ensues. TB!
now displays the last message in a long thread. To display the message
in the message list, it auto-expands the thread which instantly widens
the thread column. Now, if the thread column exceeds that of the space
given for the entire message list, for some reason, the list is also
auto-scrolled to the right as well! I'm therefore, suddenly no longer
looking at the thread column, but instead, the columns to the right of
the message list.
JL> This is, of course, not a problem of TB's threading, but a
JL> *shortcut*-problem and can easily be solved by using another
JL> shortcut for expanding branches (like ctrl+spacebar).
I wish threads to expand only if there's a message in them to be
reading. I dislike having all threads expanded at all times.
- --
- Allie -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A. Curtis Martin | List Moderator
(PGP Key ID: 0x2B0717E2) | (TBUDL|TBBETA|TBTECH)
The Bat! v1.49e | Windows NT 5.00.2195 (Service Pack 1)
** Opinions given are mine and not necessarily those of RITLABS **
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