Hello Allie and other TBTECHS,
On Sunday, February 11, 2001 at 13:23:23 -0500 Allie wrote on "! 1.49: Message
Column Lists moves to the right, message threading":
ACM>>> I should be able to follow the entire thread and be able to view all
ACM>>> columns.
JL>> Again, I'm not sure that this is a fair demand :-) Especially not
JL>> if it is meant to go for the message list in the "main browser",
JL>> as well as the one in the "Folder View".
ACM> I meant to be able to view the columns I wish to. I don't have all
ACM> columns enabled, only four and even then, it can be a problem. It's
ACM> not an unreasonable demand either since I view threads comfortably
ACM> when using either Agent, Gravity or X-News. None of them provide a
ACM> perfect solution but they're definitely more comfortable to use and
ACM> though I like Agent more than X-News overall, IMO, X-News offers the
ACM> best method.
As the matter of fact, I am back to Agent myself after trying out Becky! and
it's news plug-in for a couple of months. BTW, Becky! acts exactly as TB, when
one jumps into a deep thread with a "Next Unread"-shortcut: the subject-column
expands and moves the other columns to the right. So, it is not just TB that has
this "flaw" - as some have suggested.
JL>> Besides, I still don't think this discussion has brought a program
JL>> to light that does what you are asking here.
ACM> Oh yes. I always am able to see the columns I wish to see and go
ACM> through all threads when using either X-News, Agent or Gravity.
Hm, it seems to me that your loyalty to Agent makes you a little ambivalent :-)
Do you accept it's follow-up level or not? If you don't, Agent does not do what
you are asking ;-)
JL>> Agent does *not* allow following any thread in it's entirety while
JL>> at the same time retaining all columns - not if "following a
JL>> thread" means: reading the messages in a thread in their proper
JL>> "follow-up"-context.
ACM> I realize this and this is one of it's weaknesses. None of the
ACM> implementations are perfect but if there's one thing that annoys me,
ACM> it's to see the columns drifting as the thread expands and develops.
ACM> With Agent I trade threading clarity with for potential problems with
ACM> other threading methods as TB!'s.
This is clear talk! But then Agent is just among the best solutions *so far* -
and not an ideal to model TB after. And, if you agree, that X-news are not
legible enough (which your prais of Agent seems to imply), it seems to me, that
this discussion really has *not* brought a convincing - existing - ideal for TB
to light - except, maybe, for Gravity...but I spend my 30 trial-days ages ago,
so I can't comment on that one :-)
OTOH, this discussion - apparently - has led to a fairly unanimous praise of a
not yet existing, but - as it seems - easily adopted ideal. "Easily" because it
is a small adjustment of what we already got:
1) an option for setting a follow-up limit (somehow related to the width of the
threaded column) inside which all columns would remain completely at rest
2) an option for controlling what is to happen after this limit is reached:
a) threaded column expanding
or
b) ?
ACM> Personally, I don't have a problem following threads when using
ACM> Agents. As long as the messages are cohesively grouped together by
ACM> references in descending order of their being posted is fine by me. I
ACM> don't really need to see exactly who posted to whom at the expense of
ACM> the other columns drifting out of view. I, however, do acknowledge
ACM> that reference threading showing all the follow-up levels is useful
ACM> and that X-News provides the better solution.
Ok.
ACM> One shouldn't have to work around an implementation. One should be
ACM> able to work with it. I find myself having to work around it. The
ACM> first method I used was to keep my common TBUDL/TBETA folder
ACM> relatively light by filtering out messages beyond a certain age. This
ACM> would prevent the presence of long threads. I now use the ticker
ACM> virtual folder. With Agent and X-News, I need no such work around. I
ACM> comfortably work with all threads, no matter their size and no column
ACM> drifts or drifts out of view.
Ok.
ACM> CTRL+] will take you to the next unread
ACM> message, no matter in which thread it resides and how deep in the
ACM> thread it resides. The shortcut auto-expands and drills down
ACM> automatically to the next unread messages, going through the threads
ACM> in descending order.
My shortcut for this is Ctrl+å (the letter next to "p" on a Danish keyboard).
But using this has - so far - never caused the message list to move.
ACM> An example would be:
ACM> I've finished reading the last new message in a thread and the next
ACM> new message happens to be the last message in a very long thread which
ACM> is at the moment collapsed. All columns are visible since I haven't
ACM> expanded any long threads. I now hit CTRL+] and the chaos ensues. TB!
ACM> now displays the last message in a long thread. To display the message
ACM> in the message list, it auto-expands the thread which instantly widens
ACM> the thread column. Now, if the thread column exceeds that of the space
ACM> given for the entire message list, for some reason, the list is also
ACM> auto-scrolled to the right as well! I'm therefore, suddenly no longer
ACM> looking at the thread column, but instead, the columns to the right of
ACM> the message list.
It's hard for me to comment on this, since it only happened to me, when I used
the Ctrl+Right Arrow-shortcut to open a thread gradually - branch by branch (as
I explained in my previous post). But it seems very strange, that *my* shortcut
for "Move to next unread" (Ctrl+å) does not give rise to the problems that
*your* shortcut does.
ACM> I wish threads to expand only if there's a message in them to be reading. I
ACM> dislike having all threads expanded at all times.
It seems that I have said something that has led you to believe that *I* delight
in expanding tons of threads! But I don't - I either use the Ctrl+å shortcut to
"Move to next unread" or Shift+Spacebar to open a given branch :-)
--
Best regards,
Jannik Lindquist
The Bat! 1.49
Windows 98 4 10 2222 A
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