Hi, all,
I'm replying to Marck's message for it contains the bulk of things I
want to address. Yet I did read through the whole thread and I'll
cut-n-paste relevant parts into this reply. Original authors of
those parts would be noted, of course.
On Thursday, November 16, 2000, 2:19:16 PM, Marck wrote:
DW>> Thanks, but right now I can click on Edit Message in Calypso,
DW>> edit the message/subject line, and then click on the disc icon
DW>> to save it (having clicked on remove rich text (HTML) if it
DW>> wasn't plain text).
DW>> That's a lot easier!
I'm not re-quoting these paragraphs to promote a competing product.
I have no interest in Calypso. Tried it, and didn't like it
(generally). However, those words look perfectly benign to me! In
fact, I read Doug's message yesterday before the long thread
developed, and I wasn't a bit offended by it at all.
When I'm trying out a new program, I can't help but look for
features I cherish in the one I own. It's only natural if I phrase
my question as "I used to do this, and now how can I do this (with
the new product)?"
Plenty has been said, e.g., about TB's cumbersome multi-key
shortcuts and how they're inferior to, say, Forte Agent. No one feel
threatened because we all know Agent is lousy as an emailer, hence
no competitor at all, though it has features we crave. If that's the
case, why should we feel threatened by Doug's comparison? (Is it
because Calypso is closer and more formidable as a competitor?)
> Now, if I wanted to I could join the Calypso list (using TB) and ask
> if I can do, say, one of the many things TB does that Calypso cannot.
I believe you're going a little too far here by accusing Doug coming
on board solely (or mostly) on the purpose of promoting a competing
product. I didn't feel that way, and I still don't after reading it
a couple more times. Thomas said:
TF> IMHO everybody can use what client he wants (though we prefer TB), as
TF> long as the contents of his message concern TB - this is a TB User's
TF> list.
and I agree.
Risking over-generalization, I feel you've been a little testy
recently whenever someone mentions a competing product, especially
when he/she posts with that product, and asks about features TB
lacks.
That's not to say you're not a good moderator. You (and others) have
been exemplary among all moderators I've ever known. I just feel
that we don't need to guard list members like sheep. I mean, even
some are tempted by a competing product promoted here (again, I
don't feel Doug was doing that), so what? If TB is really that good,
as we believe, they'll eventually come back (hopefully very soon).
If they go and stay, then they've found a product that serves their
needs better, and we should be happy for them.
No, I'm not saying we should open our door to all kinds of
advertisements about competing products (or any other product, for
that matter), since we don't want our forum diluted. I'm just saying
we should be more tolerant to genuine (in Doug's case) or even
less-genuine (hypothetically) comparisons between TB and competing
products.
> Thank you for sharing with us the one thing Calypso does that TB does
> not. It has been most entertaining. However, I'm not sure that you'll
> have convinced the users here that it is a better world.
Again, I don't feel he was trying to do that. What makes you think
he's doing that simply by making one single comparison in favor of
another product? Does he have to harp praise on TB for three
paragraphs before getting to his point?
So much about moderation. Now to the main disagreement.
> There are good reasons that an email client doesn't allow
> you to change incoming mails easily. For instance, it is
> this kind of trivialisation that cheapens email as a
> legitimate record of a communication. I know now that any
> forwarded message from a Calypso user is as unrepresentative
> as those I already distrust from Becky users. Thanks for the heads
> up :-).
Several of you have expressed the same thought. I don't agree.
If I forward a message to you and claim it to be exactly the same as
the original, you'll just have to take my word for it, regardless
whether I send it from TB or any other emailer. If you trust me, you
trust me; if you don't, you don't. Changes to the content of email
can be done, no matter what programs one uses.
Some of you suggest while it can be done, it should be discouraged.
E.g., Allie said:
ACM> There are two ways of modifying received messages using TB! as
ACM> it is. They're a tad more tedious than what Becky and Calypso
ACM> provide, but this should be the case since making it easy for
ACM> the passing user encourages the practice rather than discourage
ACM> it.
Again, I don't agree. Just as physical mail we receive (or books we
own, etc.), what we like to do with the copies we own is totally our
business. If your argument holds, moreover, then why don't we take
away the trash can in TB? :) Or why should we allow people to change
the "Save" template, or delete attachments, or delete the html part?
Or why do we allow forwarding messages in text (rather than MIME
attached)?
There're as many legitimate reasons to modify a received message as
to delete it. If needed, one can save a copy of the original. What's
wrong with that? The official list archives of TBUDL and TBBETA
cross out senders' email addresses, for good reasons. Why can't the
users do similar things, to mail in his/her own mailboxes?
Some of you suggested the memo function in TB to be a superior
solution. While I agree it's useful and take away some of the needs
to touch the original message, it can't substitute the latter.
What if I receive a message full of jokes and I only want to keep
one of them? What if I want to change the subject and put the
original subject in the memo? (I don't have 1600*1200, Allie, :) and
can't afford to show memo in the message list pane.) What if I want
to break a thread that doesn't belong together (despite moderators'
repeated warning, it still happens a lot, doesn't it)?
> If that was not your intention then please accept my apologies for
> any offence caused.
That proves you're still a great moderator, Marck, and I tip my hat
to you. :)
--
Best regards,
Ming-Li
The Bat! 1.48 Beta/6 | Win2k SP1
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