And in the meantime, they have a system which costs $10M to block (any
time you have to involve politicians you get into big money, for a
start), instead of $10K. This is bad how...?

On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 09:07:50PM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 03:57:59PM -0400, jrandom at i2p.net wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > > Apart from that... your argument is that you don't need global traffic
> > > analysis to identify users, right? Well, probably this is true. You need
> > > enough intelligence to see "hrrm, this user has VoIP connections to
> > > these 5 other users 24x7... this doesn't seem very likely!". Right?
> > 
> > Right.
> > 
> > For Freenet/dark to have any sort of obscurity (aka to be different from
> > Freenet/light), its traffic patterns need to be plausible and acceptable.
> > 
> > Freenet/dark will still use long lasting bidirectional sessions, moving
> > lots of data, right?  What, other than p2p filesharing, looks anything
> > like that?
> 
> What is the situation with regards to conventional P2P in oppressive
> regimes? Certainly piracy is tolerated... Presumably they attempt to
> block P2P as they can't really run their own supernodes! OTOH, they
> could probably just kill connections on seeing certain keywords in most
> cases as most of them don't encrypt their connections...?
> 
> In Europe, ISPs will soon be required to record VoIP contacts for future
> analysis by law enforcement. I don't know if they expect to do this by
> going to the VoIP companies themselves... surely some of them are out of
> jurisdiction, and some of them are P2P. So presumably they will have to
> do this via traffic analysis. Meaning that they probably have the
> ability to do simple logging on any and all connections of specific
> types asked for, in current hardware. Which could then be fed to a
> government box, rather than just picking the required data out and
> storing it, as will be required soon here...
> 
> If we sacrifice real-time delivery, then we can make freenet traffic
> look vaguely plausible, but it will still be between the same set of
> peers. So it should be reasonably easy to build a back-end to find it,
> over a longish period, say 6 months, based on traffic data kept...
> 
> Which leaves us with sneakernet, wifi, schemes with PDAs and so on.
> Which are much more difficult to set up and use, but are hard to find,
> and can still scale into a usable-size network (I have previously
> explained why I think scale is useful), using more or less the same
> routing and structures as we will have in 0.7. So, even if 0.7 is not
> usable as such in hostile regimes for long, it will function as a usable
> prototype.
> 
> Incidentally, your argument about small-scale systems slipping under the
> RADAR is bogus. If the Chinese cared enough to take the above measures,
> they would certainly be able to systematically block ordinary web
> proxies (by scanning traffic for absolute URLs), rather than having the
> current farcical situation of "the government is subscribed to the
> proxies mailing list, so proxies get blocked in a day or so". Now,
> perhaps this has already happened; I suspect Ian's info is way out of
> date...
> 
> Scale is useful for two reasons:
> 1. You don't want to organize tiny groups of militants. They are quite
> capable of using PGP. What you want to do is take free speech to the masses.
> 2. The reason the internet is more useful than pre-internet AOL or an
> old non-networked BBS is that it is global.
> > 
> > =jr
> -- 
> Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
> Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
> ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.



> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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