> They are just disconnect > you before bring to court. Blocking of Internet connection is in addition to prosecution, but legal proceedings is not systematic. The purpose of Hadopi is to alleviate the courts. Before, there were very few prosecutions for downloading copyrighted files, because the courts were overburdened. Hadopi was created at the request of the majors. The European Parliament is against this law because it does not allow people to defend themselves (or with their lawyer), and because the sanctions must be imposed by the courts. (This is not the case for Hadopi: sanctions will be imposed by the government and majors.)
On 1/20/09, Daniel Cheng <j16sdiz+freenet at gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Ancoron Luciferis > <ancoron at chaoslayer.de> wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Hi there, >> >> I knew that the french law goes further than any other country in europe >> nowadays regarding anti-piracy and stuff like that but I didn't knew >> that you can be held guilty for something you didn't do (neighbor hacked >> in WLAN). That's like being held guilty for the damage someone makes >> that stole your car. I can't really believe that, because that would >> negate the base assumption: everyone is innocent as long as his/her >> guilt has not been proven. > > This is not "held guilty" in the legal sense. They are just disconnect > you before bring to court. This is a proactive measurement to prevent > further "harm" -- just like what have been doing for, for example, > child abuse and violent to spouse. > > Yes, piracy issue is as serious as (if not more important then) trying > to kill your wife or child. > >> Well, it doesn't matter much how strict the law is. As long as the use >> of freenet is not explicitly prohibited in France you are free to use >> it. If you are concerned about your privacy using the darknet is your >> best bet nowadays. If your internet connection is being blocked for >> nothing then I would sue the authority. And as a last option you are >> still free to leave your country. >> >> At the 25C3 in berlin, germany, there was some proposal that first >> sounds funny but after thinking about it it just makes sense: all new >> laws should be tested at the government itself before establishment. >> >> It's not the people that need to be controlled, it is the government! It >> is those people that happen to decide based on money instead of >> knowledge that makes our world go mad. There is no terrorism as long as >> you don't blame someone for it. >> >> Just in case you want to know what all those new laws are meant for you >> should consider watching this movie: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ >> >> It explains why the world is as it is and why it is that mad nowadays. >> >> >> To summarize this it is not a freenet issue (although I enjoy such >> political discussions). If internet connections can be blocked arbitrary >> it is even not safe to have one. All the french people with an internet >> access should make as much noise as they can to prove that law ad >> absurdum. > > This is a freenet issue. > Read http://freenetproject.org/philosophy.html item 5: > : The only way to ensure that a democracy will remain effective is to > : ensure that the government cannot control its population's ability to > : share information, to communicate. So long as everything we see > : and hear is filtered, we are not truly free. Freenet's aim is to allow > : two or more people who wish to share information, to do so. > > Note the second line. I would read it as: > "...ensure that the government cannot (do what it want to do)..." > >> Thanks for reading, >> >> AncoL >> >> 3BUIb3S50i 3BUIb3S50i wrote: >>> The blocking is arbitrary, upon request of the majors. Majors give IP >>> addresses to a high authority, and high authority blocks the Internet >>> connection, without legal proceedings. People can not defend >>> themselves. It is even impossible to denounce a neighbor who uses our >>> wireless connection: the French state provides software to protect >>> connections, and it consider that the owner of the connection is >>> protected and responsibly. The European Parliament is against French >>> law, but no European law has been passed yet. The French minister of >>> culture want several hundred million of sanctions per year without >>> legal proceedings. >>> >>> On 1/19/09, Matthew Toseland <toad at amphibian.dyndns.org> wrote: >>>> On Monday 19 January 2009 22:15, 3BUIb3S50i 3BUIb3S50i wrote: >>>>> I understand your logical position. But using Freenet, we can be >>>>> accused of participating in a network facilitating piracy, even if we >>>>> do not download copyrighted files ourselves. In this case, our >>>>> Internet connection would be blocked wrongly. And it is possible that >>>>> the French state to use this law as a pretext to censor its citizens >>>>> annoying. So we are worried. >>>> Does the law allow for people to be blocked arbitrarily? Who decides? >>>>> On 1/19/09, Matthew Toseland <toad at amphibian.dyndns.org> wrote: >>>>>> On Monday 19 January 2009 18:11, 3BUIb3S50i 3BUIb3S50i wrote: >>>>>>> Yes and I use Freenet for legal use only. Like a lot of users! But we >>>>>>> can not know what is in the datastores and in the freenet traffic. >>>>>>> So, >>>>>>> you think the French state does not attack Freenet or its users? I >>>>>>> hope. We'll see... >>>>>> I didn't say that. All I said was if you are worried about having your >>>>>> internet connection blocked it is presumably because you are >>>>>> downloading >>>>>> illegal copyrighted files, and therefore that we don't want to have >>>> anything >>>>>> to do with you. >>>>>>> On 1/19/09, Matthew Toseland <toad at amphibian.dyndns.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Monday 19 January 2009 15:28, 3BUIb3S50i 3BUIb3S50i wrote: >>>>>>>>> There is a break in the sanctions of french law Hadopi. Hadopi >>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>> censured users to use television, telephone and maybe anothers >>>>>>>>> payables services. So, victims will have a lot of censured ports, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> not all. Some ports will continue to run. Can we found a method to >>>>>>>>> override this censorship (with freenet)? e.g. encapsulate traffic >>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>>> VoIP. This is very difficult: ISP can limit traffic only from/to >>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>> servers. What do you think? It's very important for french users. >>>>>>>>> French users risk to left freenet soon... like Batosai. For >>>>>>>>> example, >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> do not want to risk losing my Internet connection. The french >>>>>>>>> community is afraid by this law. Some users have requested TCP >>>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>>> for hide freenet traffic in https, http etc. ISP will spy their >>>>>>>>> users, >>>>>>>>> so Darknet will not be sufficient. >>>>>>>> I assume this is some sort of law whereby those who download >>>> copyrighted >>>>>>>> files >>>>>>>> get their internet access cut? Please do not use Freenet to >>>>>>>> illegally >>>>>>>> copy >>>>>>>> copyrighted files. The Freenet Project cannot have anything to do >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> piracy, as per Grokster vs MGM. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Tech mailing list >>>>>>> Tech at freenetproject.org >>>>>>> http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Tech mailing list >>>>> Tech at freenetproject.org >>>>> http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech >>>>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tech mailing list >>> Tech at freenetproject.org >>> http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech >>> >>> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org >> >> iEYEARECAAYFAkl1iGcACgkQHwxOsqv2bG2QDwCeOnSTLJqj6oGLNvCmDkoENcJI >> XlcAoIGjgVFv9/Z6KFIfh7GAZ2afZ6Dh >> =JLhh >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> _______________________________________________ >> Tech mailing list >> Tech at freenetproject.org >> http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech >> > _______________________________________________ > Tech mailing list > Tech at freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech > -- 3buib3s50i at gmail.com | dimonqmfcb at gmx.com
