Well Said Harvey Wicked Good Caving
Pat Seiser Patricia Seiser cavewe...@windstream.net We shall not cease from exploration. And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started, And know the place for the first time. T.S. Eliot From: Harvey DuChene [mailto:hrduch...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 7:46 PM To: casto...@gmail.com; cavewe...@windstream.net Cc: 'Jen.'; 'swr'; 'pajarito'; 'Steve Peerman'; 'Penny Boston' Subject: RE: [SWR] Fw: Breaking News: WNS in Mammoth Cave NP Some "Science" (or lack thereof) is used by a few (but probably not most) bureaucrats as "backup" to further their personal careers and/or agendas. This is human nature. Federal land stewards in New Mexico have an unfortunate history of this type of behavior. The current WNS Tsarina in Santa Fe (or someone above her in the chain of command) is only the latest example; the most egregious example is the woman in the Roswell BLM office who allowed a gas exploration well to be drilled within spitting distance of Lechuguilla Cave. She was affectionately referred to by cavers as "Iron Tits". Her case is perhaps the most onerous. As long as these agencies promote people who are more interested in their personal agendas or careers than they are in doing what is honorable and right, these kinds of problems will continue. Unfortunately, government agency culture is firmly entrenched and not likely to change. I am saddened by the massive die-off of bats caused by WNS. It's unfortunate, but evidently not regarded as a serious enough problem to loosen funds to do the needed research. My conclusion: many bats of some species will die. Some will survive, if they develop immunity, but bat population "demographics" will change and species may be redistributed. Banning cavers from the caves on Federal Land because of WNS is merely a convenient excuse for agencies to save on their meager budgets. Money not spent "managing" caves can be used somewhere else. It was too bad that there was a massive die-off at the end of the Cretaceous. Perhaps we should start a movement to ban meteors and asteroids from hitting our planet. If one the size of the Chicxulub meteor hit, it would probably kill a lot of bats! I think the results of a ban on meteors would be about the same as prohibiting cavers from going into caves because someone has arbitrarily concluded that humans are the vector of WNS. The WNS scare is a wonderful example of the National Cave Protection Act being used against the very people who championed its establishment. The Act has had a lot of beneficial results, but WNS paranoia has provided an opportunity for the sword to cut the other way. Be careful what you wish for. Harvey D. From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Fleming Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 5:03 PM To: cavewe...@windstream.net Cc: Jen.; swr; pajarito; Steve Peerman; Penny Boston Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: Breaking News: WNS in Mammoth Cave NP On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Patricia Seiser <cavewe...@windstream.net> wrote: Non-closure of Mammoth Cave is not just a monetary issue for the NSS. The local communities are very dependent on the tourism generated by the presence of a National Park. Not only do they reap the benefits of the tourists visiting the NP, but also benefit from the "publicity/advertisement" generated by the NPS. I did research in the area a few years ago, and it was a common theme in the local communities that the Government was determined to close the Park - based on the evidence of reduction in tours and personnel. There is a huge concern that if the park closes so goes the local communities - including the other show caves. Patricia Seiser That essentially is my point. Where the economic and political clout exists, it doesn't matter how WNS is transmitted, faulty/pretend science or not. Where there is insufficient clout, like in NM*, we get BS explanations, coupled with pseudo-science deemings of convenient "facts not in evidence" that the agencies latch onto to validate whatever it is they want to do. *NPS excepted since they have not restricted park use, so the clout is actually more political than economic at least here (or maybe they just care a lot less than BLM and the USFS about what happens). All I want is real scientific proof, one way or the other and I want the scientific community to stop tacitly and overtly supporting the closures when they cannot provide that proof (or that proof isn't what some apparently wish it to be). The WNS closures are in no way based on science and that ought to bother the scientific community for being used in such a manner to advance an agenda in a way that is inimical to scientific processes and long-established standards of operation and investigation. Apparently, it does not because no credentialed scientists appear willing to publicly state the obvious or do anything to change the status quo of this nonsense. In the unlikely event a human vector can scientifically be shown to exist, then I have no problem accepting that. I have a big problem with the lock-out and circus based on sham studies and assumptions. Given how long we've been dealing with WNS without a shred of human-vector proof, it doesn't look like any such proof will be forthcoming. In my former work life, all kind of things could be alleged, and were investigated. But, in those situations where there was no evidence, there was no case. WNS is no different from a perspective of standards and proof, but instead is handled using fiction, innuendo, rumor, fear, and blatant disregard of accuracy as the basis for actionable but thoroughly questionable "proof" in the face of facts that clearly say otherwise and which do not support what is being done to cavers and caving. My basic questions remain unanswered: Why are federal caves in known WNS areas still open while federal caves in NM more than 900 miles from any threat closed? How is this justified and why is the standard different? The real answer is we are being played for fools.
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