Nicely said Jennifer
Patricia Seiser cavewe...@windstream.net We shall not cease from exploration. And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started, And know the place for the first time. T.S. Eliot From: Jen. [mailto:bigredfo...@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 6:12 PM To: casto...@gmail.com; cavewe...@windstream.net Cc: Steve Peerman; swr; Penny Boston Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: Breaking News: WNS in Mammoth Cave NP The BLM made a management decision to close their caves that were determined to be colonial bat roosts. They did not close all the caves, they closed less than 1% of caves in NM, and they have worked with cavers to allow exceptions for research. No-one is happy, but we are doing the best we can in a difficult situation. The Mammoth Cave WNS Response plan should answer your questions as to why that cave is still open. http://www.nps.gov/maca/parkmgmt/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile <http://www.nps.gov/maca/parkmgmt/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&PageID=330269> &PageID=330269. They have closed their hibernacula to visitation. They have a very thorough plan that describes how and why they allow visitation to certain areas. Though it hasn't been proven that humans have spread WNS, no-one can prove that cavers can't spread it (unlikely does not equal impossible, and biologists have succeeded in the lab). Closing major hibernacula 900 miles away makes more sense than closing caves 10 miles away from the source. Once WNS is within normal bat movement, the theoretical human vector is not an issue (except for transmission to outside areas). As cavers, we typically want to do whatever we can to protect the bats that share the caves with us. We stay out of major hibernacula in the winter and maternity roosts in summer. Now we need to make sure we don't spread spores, since we don't know yet if a one in a million transmission might happen. You may not agree with how an agency is managing the resource they have been trusted to manage, but I will hope that discussing it ad nauseam will lead to re-evaluations and improvements. Jen _____ From: Stephen Fleming <casto...@gmail.com> To: cavewe...@windstream.net Cc: Steve Peerman <gypca...@comcast.net>; Jen. <bigredfo...@yahoo.com>; swr <s...@caver.net>; pajarito <pajar...@lists.snurkle.net>; Penny Boston <pbos...@nmt.edu> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: Breaking News: WNS in Mammoth Cave NP On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Patricia Seiser <cavewe...@windstream.net> wrote: Non-closure of Mammoth Cave is not just a monetary issue for the NSS. The local communities are very dependent on the tourism generated by the presence of a National Park. Not only do they reap the benefits of the tourists visiting the NP, but also benefit from the “publicity/advertisement” generated by the NPS. I did research in the area a few years ago, and it was a common theme in the local communities that the Government was determined to close the Park – based on the evidence of reduction in tours and personnel. There is a huge concern that if the park closes so goes the local communities – including the other show caves. Patricia Seiser That essentially is my point. Where the economic and political clout exists, it doesn't matter how WNS is transmitted, faulty/pretend science or not. Where there is insufficient clout, like in NM*, we get BS explanations, coupled with pseudo-science deemings of convenient "facts not in evidence" that the agencies latch onto to validate whatever it is they want to do. *NPS excepted since they have not restricted park use, so the clout is actually more political than economic at least here (or maybe they just care a lot less than BLM and the USFS about what happens). All I want is real scientific proof, one way or the other and I want the scientific community to stop tacitly and overtly supporting the closures when they cannot provide that proof (or that proof isn't what some apparently wish it to be). The WNS closures are in no way based on science and that ought to bother the scientific community for being used in such a manner to advance an agenda in a way that is inimical to scientific processes and long-established standards of operation and investigation. Apparently, it does not because no credentialed scientists appear willing to publicly state the obvious or do anything to change the status quo of this nonsense. In the unlikely event a human vector can scientifically be shown to exist, then I have no problem accepting that. I have a big problem with the lock-out and circus based on sham studies and assumptions. Given how long we've been dealing with WNS without a shred of human-vector proof, it doesn't look like any such proof will be forthcoming. In my former work life, all kind of things could be alleged, and were investigated. But, in those situations where there was no evidence, there was no case. WNS is no different from a perspective of standards and proof, but instead is handled using fiction, innuendo, rumor, fear, and blatant disregard of accuracy as the basis for actionable but thoroughly questionable "proof" in the face of facts that clearly say otherwise and which do not support what is being done to cavers and caving. My basic questions remain unanswered: Why are federal caves in known WNS areas still open while federal caves in NM more than 900 miles from any threat closed? How is this justified and why is the standard different? The real answer is we are being played for fools.
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