Well I am one of those cavers from the Austin area. And I am always guick to volunteer for the TCC time and time again. I'm not gonna say any names. But those cavers who I heard stripped in the parking lot. Were allowed back in after the TCC cave day. Is this how we punish ppl who mess things up for the rest of. Us by granting them access while the rest of us "can't have the fruit from the top of the tree"
Sent via my Samsung Galaxy Prevail from Boost Mobile freddie poer <freddiepoe...@yahoo.com> wrote: >George is completely right in his assessment of the situation at Beck Ranch >Cave. The real problem is not with the cave gate at all. The problem is with >people. It is the cavers themselves that have jeopardized the access to this >cave. Sure, the local kids have done their share of creating problems, but >more harm was done by cavers who should know better. One was the caver who >thought it was okay to strip naked in the parking lot. This is a public >neighborhood park. The parking lot is directly behind a fire station and >adjacent to the local MUD headquarters. The firemen joke that they would have >had him arrested for indecent exposure but there was a definite lack of >evidence from their view. Another caver was caught leaving the cave and tried >to say he had permission from his professor to visit the cave. Turned out he >was a former student of said professor and this caver never returned the keys >to the gate like he was supposed to. If these cavers had > followed the rules, like they agreed to, we would not have the current > situation. Cavers need to respect the rights and wishes of the property > owners, or the owners will not respect cavers. It has nothing to do with the > gate or gate designs. It has everything to do with cavers screwing up. Here > at the Texas Cave Conservancy we manage around 200 caves in the Williamson > county area. We also do cave day twice a year. This consists of opening two > or more caves, free to the public, in order to educate the public about the > importance of caves as endangered species habitats and impact upon > groundwater and the aquifer. We have repeatedly asked for volunteers to help > with these efforts. With the exception of a handfull of cavers, our response > for volunteers has been damn near zero, especially from the cavers of the > Austin area. There are probably 60-70 cavers who regularly show up at the UTG > meetings. Less that ten of these have volunteered and > shown up to help us out on our public education efforts. But these same > cavers are the first to complain when we have a situation like what is > happening at Becks Ranch Cave. Mind you, they are not offering to help at > all, they only want to complain. Instead of criticizing, and complaining, why > don't some of you offer to help out for a change. If you want to see Becks > Ranch cave then sign up for the upcoming conservation trip in february. Or > maybe you could volunteer to help us work on some of the cave preserves. I am > sure we could put your efforts to good use, if only the help was offered. >Sincerely, Freddie Poer, Caretaker, Texas Cave Conservancy >--- On Thu, 9/27/12, George D. Nincehelser <george.nincehel...@gmail.com> >wrote: > > >From: George D. Nincehelser <george.nincehel...@gmail.com> >Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >To: "Andy Gluesenkamp" <andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> >Cc: "wesley s" <mudmal...@hotmail.com>, "texascavers@texascavers.com" ><texascavers@texascavers.com> >Date: Thursday, September 27, 2012, 8:19 PM > > >The trails are heavily used by the residents. Flood damage means more money >spent fixing the trails. > >Most of the debris I'm talking about is organic. It washes down the wet >branch of the cave to the aquifer. Nature runs her course. > >However, if a grate were placed over the opening, the debris would tend to >pile up and block the opening. That's the problem. > > >George > > > > > > >On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp ><andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >I've visited the cave (legally) but not during a flood event. Most of the >trash I saw in the cave was hand-delivered. Can you describe the situation? >I don't see how damage to park trails have anything to do with whether the >cave is gated or not but, hey, you're the engineer. > >Sent from my iPhone > > > >On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" ><george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >Washing out of park trails for a start. > >I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up >with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > >Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is >raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? > > >If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, >member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. > > >If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over >the opening isn't going to work. > > >George > > > > >On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp ><andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence >that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the >ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? > >Sent from my iPhone > > > >On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" ><george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing >to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. > >As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an engineer >I can tell you there is no easy fix. > > >George > > > > > >On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp ><andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >attractive nuisance. Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >figurative) out. > >Sent from my iPhone > > > >On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" ><george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought about >this problem for years. > > >Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. > > >What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? > > >George > > > > > >On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s <mudmal...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >Wow Mike, > >Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you a >great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell of a lot >better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the difficulties you are >having and learning from them. > >Wes~ > > > > > >From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 > >Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > > > >Beck Ranch Cave Update > > >In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management agreement >with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one of the few >caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. The cave entrance >was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter and exit the cave. A >high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build to attempt to control >access. Local teenagers were using it for a party cave. The fence allowed us >to greatly reduce the party traffic so we could protect the cave. > > Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. Texas >cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals and the >cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued citations for >trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to prevent the authorized >caver groups from creating problems such as changing cloths in the parking lot >of a public park. Cavers in their underwear, and less, have made it difficult >to keep cave open. > > As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management >activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant control >and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave Conservancy. > We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. The next clean >up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are interested in assisting >us in conducting the cave management activities, send us your name in an >e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.com We will place you on the list and contact >you prior to our work project. > > Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas cavers >that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when unauthorized >visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the cave owner prior to >each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system is in place to observe the >cave. A house near the cave can easily observe people entering the cave and >call for law enforcement. In addition, electronic monitoring should greatly >increase the number of trespassers arrested. We have been notified that all >unauthorized visitors that are detected will be arrested and charged with >trespassing. This will include cavers. > >We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the cave. >Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything possible, short >of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at the Texas Caver’s >Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. Once again, Thank You >for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. > > >Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy > >512-249-2283 > >mikewaus...@austin.rr.com > > > >
