All, I gleaned from Freddie's that there is a problem of dissatisifaction with local cavers not assisting with the Cave Day events and apparent public display of exposured flesh. I can totaly see how that would be frustrating and even chap some people's hides, but this seems like a seperate issue that I do not care to comment on. I would like to offer some suggestions about the problems with trespassing, drainage issues, and protecting the sensitve habitats within the cave. This is an interesting topic. I'd like to further Carol's suggestion that a debris barrier in the form of cobble-sized agregate encased in chain link (the one I am thinking of has dimesions of 1.5 ft high x 1 ft wide) could be used to surround the larger sinkhole feature and create a permable barrier that would restrict large debris yet still allow important recharge to occur. I have seen some very nice debris walls installed outside caves in South Austin. It could even be designed to include a compost colletion area where the debris would breakdown naturally. About 8 years ago I recall seeing bats roosting in a low passageway in Becks. At the time, Mike mentioned that that the cave had no evidence of being used by bats historically. I recall thinking that it was pretty exciting to see them expand their habitat into the newly protected preserve. My memory is sketchy but I recall that the low passageway is along the major route to the lower parts of the cave and when someone crosses, it invariably disturbs the bat roost. Also, after passing through the low passage, one must bellycrawl over a series of water-filled rimstone dams (is this true?). I can't quite remember but I believe there were isopods in the rimstone lined pools. It got me thinking that maybe a cave gate could be installed just outside the low passageway so that only the sensitive areas are protected. Cavers could still redily access the other muddy low rock strewn passageway. Perhaps those more familiar with the cave to know if my memory serves me correctly. I'd also venture to say that most cavers are responsible and feel that protecting natural resources is of the highest priority. Respectfully, Aimee
________________________________ From: George D. Nincehelser <george.nincehel...@gmail.com> To: C Tiderman <cti...@ymail.com> Cc: Andy Gluesenkamp <andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com>; wesley s <mudmal...@hotmail.com>; "texascavers@texascavers.com" <texascavers@texascavers.com> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update The entrance is basically a hole straight down. There's really nowhere to divert the debris. George On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, C Tiderman <cti...@ymail.com> wrote: Hi, > >i am trying to intrude on a local situation, but I was wondering if there is a >way to install a debris diverter that would be set at an angle to the cave >entrance to trap and channel material off to the side where it can be removed >after a heavy rain? > >Carol > > > >________________________________ > >From: George D. Nincehelser <george.nincehel...@gmail.com> >To: Andy Gluesenkamp <andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> > >Cc: wesley s <mudmal...@hotmail.com>; "texascavers@texascavers.com" ><texascavers@texascavers.com> >Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:59 PM >Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update > > > >Washing out of park trails for a start. > >I'm not talking about damage to a gate. Any gate I've seen would just plug up >with debris, restricting water flow and bat access. > >Are you actually familiar with the situation? Have you been there when it is >raining heavily and flooding? Have you been on any of the clean-up trips? > > >If someone has a solution, I'd be happy to hear it. As a local resident, >member of the MUD, and member of the TCC I'd be happy to champion one. > > >If there is one. I know just putting up the typical bat-friendly gate over >the opening isn't going to work. > > >George > > > > >On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp ><andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >What damage? Isn't there a perimeter fence? What is going past the fence >that would damage a gate? Are you saying that debris/trash ( now going in the >ungated entrance) would be a greater problem if it didn't? >> >>Sent from my iPhone >> >>On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:34 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >><george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>Unfortuntely that's not a practical solution. Not unless the MUD is willing >>to clean out the entrance and repair the flood damage after every big storm. >>> >>>As a resident, I can tell you that's just not going to happen. As an >>>engineer I can tell you there is no easy fix. >>> >>> >>>George >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp >>><andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>Any gate must be maintained. Any cave in a dense residential area is an >>>attractive nuisance. Gate the cave and keep the trash (literal and >>>figurative) out. >>>> >>>>Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, "George D. Nincehelser" >>>><george.nincehel...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>My house is less than a block away from the entrance, and I've thought >>>>about this problem for years. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Lots of water and debris flow through the entrance, and it is sometimes >>>>>completely submerged during heavy rains. It's a major drain for the area. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>What kind of bat-friendly grate would you recommend that wouldn't keep >>>>>plugging up with debris and cause flooding as well as blocking bat access? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>George >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wesley s <mudmal...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>Wow Mike, >>>>>> >>>>>>Sure sounds like a decent bat friendly gate install would have saved you >>>>>>a great deal of public and caver goodwill and protected the cave a hell >>>>>>of a lot better. I hope other cave managers are taking note of the >>>>>>difficulties you are having and learning from them. >>>>>> >>>>>>Wes~ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>________________________________ >>>>>>From: mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >>>>>>To: Texascavers@texascavers.com >>>>>>Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:24:59 -0500 >>>>>> >>>>>>Subject: [Texascavers] Beck Ranch Cave Update >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Beck Ranch Cave Update >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>In 1999, the Texas Cave Conservancy entered into a cave management >>>>>>agreement with the Brushy Creek Municipal Utility District. This is one >>>>>>of the few caves under TCC management that does not have a cave gate. >>>>>>The cave entrance was not gated in order for the bats to be able to enter >>>>>>and exit the cave. A high quality nine- foot tall iron fence was build >>>>>>to attempt to control access. Local teenagers were using it for a party >>>>>>cave. The fence allowed us to greatly reduce the party traffic so we >>>>>>could protect the cave. >>>>>> >>>>>> Today, locals continue to trespass and go into the cave. >>>>>>Texas cavers are going in without permission as well. Both the locals >>>>>>and the cavers have been confronted by law enforcement and issued >>>>>>citations for trespassing. In addition, the TCC has not been able to >>>>>>prevent the authorized caver groups from creating problems such as >>>>>>changing cloths in the parking lot of a public park. Cavers in their >>>>>>underwear, and less, have made it difficult to keep cave open. >>>>>> >>>>>> As a result, all authorized trips will be for cave management >>>>>>activities such as cave clean up, the bi-annual monitoring, fire ant >>>>>>control and inspection, etc. These trips will be set up by the Texas Cave >>>>>>Conservancy. We will host an annual cave clean up and restoration visit. >>>>>> The next clean up day will be Saturday -February 23, 2013. If you are >>>>>>interested in assisting us in conducting the cave management activities, >>>>>>send us your name in an e-mail to tcc-ca...@austin.rr.com We will >>>>>>place you on the list and contact you prior to our work project. >>>>>> >>>>>> Further, the TCC would like to make it very clear to Texas >>>>>>cavers that steps have been taken to alert law enforcement when >>>>>>unauthorized visitation is taking place. The TCC now has to notify the >>>>>>cave owner prior to each authorized visit. A Neighborhood Watch system >>>>>>is in place to observe the cave. A house near the cave can easily >>>>>>observe people entering the cave and call for law enforcement. In >>>>>>addition, electronic monitoring should greatly increase the number of >>>>>>trespassers arrested. We have been notified that all unauthorized >>>>>>visitors that are detected will be arrested and charged with trespassing. >>>>>>This will include cavers. >>>>>> >>>>>>We want to thank all of the cavers that worked with us to protect the >>>>>>cave. Your work has made a difference. The TCC has done everything >>>>>>possible, short of these new actions, to prevent problems. I will be at >>>>>>the Texas Caver’s Reunion in October if you would like to ask questions. >>>>>>Once again, Thank You for working with the Texas Cave Conservancy. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Mike Walsh President-Texas Cave Conservancy >>>>>> >>>>>>512-249-2283 >>>>>> >>>>>>mikewaus...@austin.rr.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>> > > >
