Mike et al: I have a comment to make on what you just suggested and I agree with you 100%. Years ago when the battle was on in Congress over the removal of lands from mineral exploration (drilling for oil) north of the CACA NP boundary because of Lech, I actually went to visit four congress people in Washington, DC. I was already in the area because of doing some craft shows just north of DC, so took an extra day and made appointments to visit some Senators and Representatives. The only real Senator I got to see was Domenici back when he was still in office. I also visited Bingaman's office (I think that's whose it was) and those of two of my senators from Maine. It was enlightening in many ways. For one thing, I was probably one of the only actual citizens (as opposed to corporate lobbyists, lawyers and other cutthroat scum that passes for citizens) who came in to speak my mind on the issue directly to congress people. Domenici seemed mildly amused that someone other than a lawyer/lobbyist came in, but there I was, a caver, loaded with my own photos to illustrate the beauty that is Lech as an example of what would be lost if the unthinkable occurred. I think the associate I met with in Bingaman's office was livid that I was wasting her important time by *being a mere citizen* and addressing my grievances to her. I can still see her flared nostrils over the insolence of trying to express my views about saving Lech!! Anyway, my two senators from Maine seemed very interested as I was likely the only person from Maine to even bring it up.
I realize that in regards to that issue that we didn't quite get everything we wished for. Yates still drilled, hit a dry hole and plugged it up with no damage to known caves. Considering all that, we lucked out. Now we face a different threat that comes in the form of legal people trying, for better or worse, to save bats. They do so by laying the blame of the spread of the disease directly at our feet. At least we agree with them that the spread of the disease is bad, but where we disagree is that it is spread by a human vector. If they're going to mount a legal attack on us, I agree that we need to respond to them in kind. Very few of us are lawyers, but that doesn't mean that we can't approach our own senators and representatives with our own responses to their attack. We need to agree that the spread of WNS is terrible and that we are doing all we can to prevent it through our own self-imposed decon- strategies, but be forceful in saying that the human vector has not been proven anywhere by anybody. Clearly the closing of caves is more detrimental to them (the article on Fern, for example, is a good illustration) than allowing for controlled visits. If we don't make that point to them, we will lose out to CBD without a fight. If all caves are closed to everyone, that's like having a fire and locking out all the firemen to put it out!! There is no reason why we can't use our constitutional rights to address our senators and representatives about what the CBD is doing. As you said, Mike, it's the numbers and we have far more of them than CBD does at the moment. Peter On Apr 14, 2012, at 12:48 PM, Mike Bilbo wrote: > From what I know, Washington pretty much ignores petitions, but doesn't hurt > to sign - just in case. Personal letters are better but the main thing that > happens there by staffers is they just get quantified in statistics by > subject and keywords and presented to Congress as percentages on issues, yea > or nay &c, which could merit discussion. These days, it's people with > political connections and officers of organizations who might be able able to > get through. A basic strategy is you got to go meet with your Congressional > Delegation - go to the offices in person, and maybe the congressperson or > senator will actually be it. But the staffers will talk to you and that's > the best chance - you might end up on the phone in person. > > But the Center for Biological Travesty strategy here is interesting and > creative (in war, strategies count) - since they already lost a lawsuit on > these lines big-time, they are taking it to the Council on Environmental > Quality, which was created by the National Environmental Policy Act. Uh oh - > it doesn't matter whether you got a liberal or conservative administration, > CEQ and NEPA can really impact the situation - that council and that law sure > can. It's a good law and sure am glad Nixon got it through, but it can be > brought to bear in some very serious ways. Next - CBD and their supportive > allies are doing way more than just a petition: lobbying and personal > meetings with congressional delegations. Strategies. > > So, what shall the Cavers' and other reasonable citizens' strategy(ies) be? > Nope, you can't just sign a petition and that's it. We got way more work to > do. > > Mike > > From: Kathy Peerman <speleob...@comcast.net> > To: Karl Wilson <wilsonsofcolor...@yahoo.com>; Kathy Peerman > <speleob...@comcast.net>; Mike Lorimer <mi...@fastwave.biz>; Hank Boudinot > <grnpacav...@gmail.com>; Mike Dimatteo <mike_dimat...@comcast.net>; Bob > Rodgers <motoca...@gmail.com>; Stephanie Regan <regan...@nmsu.edu>; Justin > Peinado <tu...@sbcglobal.net>; David Winnett <david.winn...@yahoo.com>; > Evelyn Townsend <karstpat...@gmail.com>; Wayne Walker <wcwal...@zianet.com>; > Robert Wood <robw...@wwdb.org>; Jackie Horton <rambe...@zianet.com>; Jeff > Bach <jbac...@comcast.net>; Dave Gose <oldgru...@msn.com>; John Collins > <elpasoca...@yahoo.com>; Luke Peerman <lpeer...@lcsun-news.com>; Scott > Anderson <scottanderso...@yahoo.com>; Ashley Smith <sarcave...@gmail.com>; > Mike Bilbo <mike_bi...@blm.gov>; Kenny Stabinsky <nmba...@zianet.com>; Lee > Wilson <lee.t.wil...@gmail.com>; Kate Bach <katert...@comcast.net>; Robert > Foster <rfos...@nmsu.edu>; Margaret Wilson <margaretwilso...@gmail.com>; Lee > Stevens <sldstev...@msn.com>; Allen Wright <siz...@hotmail.com>; Grady > Viramontes <gra...@comcast.net>; Cordie Ross <cor...@alum.dartmouth.org>; > Gary Grogg <gggr...@hotmail.com>; Don Martin <dmartin...@gmail.com>; Steve > Peerman <gypca...@comcast.net>; Andy Eby <kver...@aol.com>; Hadley Robinson > <hadl...@htg.net>; Mike Bilbo (home) <mbbi...@yahoo.com>; Janice Tucker > <janice.tuc...@live.com>; Jeff Lory <jkl...@yahoo.com>; Lawrence Foreman > <lawrence.r.fore...@saic.com>; Arvel Thomas <abthomi...@comcast.net>; John > Moses <johnmo...@excite.com>; Larry Foreman <forema...@saic.com>; Stephen > Fleming <casto...@gmail.com>; Bill Godby <billgo...@gmail.com>; Michael > McWhirter <mikelis...@msn.com>; Mailing List for SWR <s...@caver.net> > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 12:31 PM > Subject: Fwd: Petition to keep public caves open to the public > > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: seileo...@gmail.com >> Date: April 13, 2012 9:16:01 AM MDT >> To: saltydigg...@yahoogroups.com, saltyrockeat...@yahoogroups.com, >> northeastcaveconserva...@yahoogroups.com, cavedigg...@yahoogroups.com >> Bcc: speleob...@comcast.net >> Subject: Petition to keep public caves open to the public >> >> Hey, all, >> >> As you may know, the CBD is petitioning the White House to close all >> public caves and fine private landowners who keep their caves open. >> This is a serious threat to the caves, which are often vandalized when >> responsible visitation is removed, and does nothing to protect the >> bats since WNS is spread bat-to-bat. Human contributions to spread can >> be effectively controlled with decon, assuming a human vector ever >> existed. Closing publicly owned caves to the public is a threat to >> conservation, a limitation of freedom, and is based on bad science, >> and I am tired of not standing up to say that. If you support this >> cause, please sign this counter petition to keep the caves open. >> >> https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/support-conservation-recreation-science-and-personal-freedom-mandating-public-access-caves-public/YX8Bjp3F >> >> Sincerely, >> John Dunham > > Kathy Peerman > speleob...@comcast.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SWR mailing list > s...@caver.net > http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
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