texascavers Digest 20 May 2011 19:00:01 -0000 Issue 1315

Fri, 20 May 2011 12:06:24 -0700 (PDT) 

texascavers Digest 20 May 2011 19:00:01 -0000 Issue 1315

Topics (messages 17822 through 17832):

Please bear with me
        17822 by: David
        17824 by: Preston Forsythe
        17825 by: caverarch

Re: report on Punkin Cave Survey Expedition #16
        17823 by: Andy Zenker

Re: NaturFest - major update
        17826 by: Rod Goke
        17827 by: Fritz Holt

Cave of Forgotten Dreams 3D
        17828 by: Bob West
        17829 by: caverarch
        17831 by: Bob West
        17832 by: Rod Goke

Caver Gathering History
        17830 by: David

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message --- 
I closed the Facebook thing.    It was an experiment.    While about
30 of you thought it
was a failure, that is not the case.

I sent out those photos to 10,000 people in the push of a few buttons.
   That has never
been done before "live" from a caving event.    It was a live report
from NaturFest.

That could not have been done on CaveTex, or Yahoo Groups, or PDF
files, or e-mail,
etc.

The younger generation that understands Facebook and Smartphones and
tablets will
find this the preferred way to communicate.       All you would have
had to do, is click "hide" messages,
if messages become annoying.

I am excited about NaturFest.

David Locklear
President of NaturFest Association

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
David,
I do not know if the NSS has expanded in the directions you have indicated or not, but I am sure the powers to be in that organization would be interested in your input in assisting that effort or even heading it up, as anything that will increase membership is a hot issue these days, which is the main reason many want to see the NSS hdqrs moved from Huntsville to KY, regardless of the cost. All of that in one sentence. Take it and run. 

Preston in western KY, formerly of 1307 1/2 Kirkwood.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <dlocklea...@gmail.com> 
To: "Cavers Texas" <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 9:57 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Please bear with me



I closed the Facebook thing.    It was an experiment.    While about
30 of you thought it
was a failure, that is not the case.

I sent out those photos to 10,000 people in the push of a few buttons.
  That has never
been done before "live" from a caving event.    It was a live report
from NaturFest.

That could not have been done on CaveTex, or Yahoo Groups, or PDF
files, or e-mail,
etc.

The younger generation that understands Facebook and Smartphones and
tablets will
find this the preferred way to communicate.       All you would have
had to do, is click "hide" messages,
if messages become annoying.

I am excited about NaturFest.

David Locklear
President of NaturFest Association

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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
The Greater Houston Grotto has found a very effective tool for recruitment in 
its Yahoo "Meet-Up" site.  It has effectively connected the grotto to cavers 
from elsewhere who have moved to the Houston area, as well as would-be cavers 
and people who are simply interested in caves.  And yes, we have gotten new 
actual members from the site, as well as casual visitors.  But don't ask my 
anything about it because , I didn't set it up and more importantly, I am not a 
member of the younger generation.


Roger Moore 
Greater Houston Grotto





-----Original Message-----
From: Preston Forsythe <pns_...@bellsouth.net>
To: David <dlocklea...@gmail.com>; Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 12:03 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please bear with me


David, 
 
I do not know if the NSS has expanded in the directions you have indicated or 
not, but I am sure the powers to be in that organization would be interested in 
your input in assisting that effort or even heading it up, as anything that 
will increase membership is a hot issue these days, which is the main reason 
many want to see the NSS hdqrs moved from Huntsville to KY, regardless of the 
cost. All of that in one sentence. Take it and run. 
 
Preston in western KY, formerly of 1307 1/2 Kirkwood.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
And there is still some good distance to survey in the East Maze in Punkin.
I might have time in the fall to work on that.

Andy Z

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Jim Kennedy <jkenn...@batcon.org> wrote:

>  I apologize for the lateness of this post, but to help stimulate more
> Cave Talk on CaveTex, I offer this belated report for your reading
> enjoyment.  Feel free to reprint or re-post in any appropriate forum.
>
> -- Crash
>
>  Over the long  Easter weekend, 21-24 April 2011, more than a dozen cavers
> gathered once again at the plush TCMA fieldhouse in scenic Carta Valley,
> Texas for another assault on Punkin Cave, the 9th longest and 28th deepest
> cave in Texas.  Like its neighbor Deep Cave (16th longest and 19thdeepest), 
> Punkin is a phenomenally
> complex cave of hypogene origin.  And both caves are owned by cavers, thanks
> to the Texas Cave Management Association!  (Hint, please join TCMA!)
>
> We had nine cavers that were able to arrive Thursday evening and survey Good
> Friday, a holiday for some.  One team (Saj Zappitello, Matt Zappitello,
> and Angela Edwards) pushed some high leads off Superstition Maze, finding
> the largest column in the cave so far.  They got 43.55m in 16 shots
> (2.72m/shot).  Another team (Justin Shaw, Lee Jay Graves, Galen Falgout)
> returned to the West Maze, surveying a few of the numerous leads left in
> that area.  Their total was 39.77m in 14 shots, (2.84m/shot).  My team
> (Jim Kennedy, Don Arburn, Ann Scott) pushed more holes off Area 51,
> gaining another 67.22m in 25 shots (2.69m/shot).  When we got back to the
> cabin, we were greeted by the new arrivals, showered and had a great
> dinner (as usual), and enjoyed a movie on the big screen.
>
> The next day we lost Ann “Office Arms” Scott, but were able to field 4
> complete survey teams with the addition of the latecomers.  Saj again led her
> hubby Matt and Karen Masters back to Superstition Maze, grabbing another 
> 43.55m
> of survey in 13 shots (3.35m/shot).  Justin continued sketching in West
> Maze with Lee Jay, Galen, and Angela, adding 35.87m more to the books in
> 17 shots (2.11m/shot).  Dale Barnard made his inaugaral visit to Punkin, and
> with Arron Wertheim and Vivian Loftin were guided to more leads in Area 51
> near Jim’s survey.  They did great, and captured 82.48m in 26 shots
> (3.17m/shot).  Next door, at least for a while, was Jim and Don and Aubri
> Jenson, wrapping up more mop-up leads before finally surveying a long
> down-trending tube that excluded Don “Femur Boy” Arburn.  Their total for
> the day was 86.93m in a whooping 33 shots (2.63m/shot), and making a new
> third lowest point in the cave.
>
> Grilled salmon, new potatoes, cheesecake, and other delectable goodies 
> rewarded
> the tired but successful cavers that night.  More movies were shown, adult
> beverages were consumed, and everyone basked in the comaraderie and great
> feeling that comes with such a sense of accomplishment.  I am indebted to
> all the wonderfully dedicated people that come out on these survey trips,
> pitching in to help with meals and cleanup, and making the weekends so
> productive and enjoyable.
>
> Punkin Cave is still the 28th deepest cave in the state at 62.4m.  The
> seven survey teams added another 396.28m to the length of the cave in 144
> shots, for an average of 2.75m per shot.  This brings the cave to 3950.76m,
> STILL the 9th longest in Texas, but only 357m from passing Cave Without a
> Name and moving up another notch.  And we need to get down only 16 more
> meters to be deeper than Deep!  We estimate AT LEAST another kilometer of
> passage remaining to be surveyed with just the leads we have seen.  Butsince 
> every trip so far finds virgin cave,
> who knows how long and deep it will eventually be?  We are giving the cave
> a break for the summer because we already saw substantial numbers of bats
> in there on this trip (unusually early this year), but we will start up
> again in the Fall.  Stay tuned for the next exciting episode!
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

David,

Fortunately, this Facebook link, unlike the earlier one, does not require us to register with Facebook before seeing what you are trying to show us. If you want to reference Facebook in messages posted to Texascavers, this is a much better way to do it. Some of us have strong ethical reasons for not registering with Facebook and do not believe that Texascavers or caving related events should be used to pressure people into registering with Facebook before we can read caving related announcements. I have no objection, however, to the way you used Facebook in this message. The only potential problem I wonder about with this method of using Facebook is whether or not it would be sufficiently private for more sensitive announcements that you would not want just anyone on the Internet to be able to discover and access via a search engine. I'm not sure whether or not that vulnerability exists with the Facebook mechanism used here, and, of course, many caving related announcements are not sensitive enough for this to be problem, anyway.

I do appreciate what you have been doing to organize NaturFest and invite the caving community. Caving is about more than caves, and there are no "typical cavers". The caving community is a diverse group if unique characters, in which individual eccentricities aren't just tolerated, they're savored, more so than in any other group I've encountered. Sometimes cavers gripe about each other, but more often than not, it's done with a sense of amusement rather than intolerance. Like a large extended family, the caving community spans multiple generations and fosters friendships that last a lifetime. Shared interest in caves and caving brings us together, but it's the unique caver culture that keeps us together for the long run. I probably won't make it to NaturFest in person this year, but I do think you are to be commended for arranging it.

Rod

-----Original Message-----
>From: David
>Sent: May 20, 2011 12:17 AM
>To: Cavers Texas
>Subject: [Texascavers] NaturFest - major update
>
>NaturFest Association is in full control of Camp Happy Hollow for the next
>3 days.
>
>I took photos of the camp this afternoon, and posted them on Facebook at
>
>http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.213650865323204
>
>If you can show me a better way to do that, I will eat guano.
>
>Anyone arriving Friday night will be on their own, however I hope
>to have the mid-nite movie set up, and a blender, but already hit a snag,
>as I can't find the power cord to the movie player.
>
>Gate code is 4490. Please keep gate locked. If you can't find anybody,
>just wait. I can't get there, until I get off work and load up all the event
>gear. Hopefully, that will be 8 pm. Realistically, 10 p.m.
>
>David Locklear
>President of NaturFest Association
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
I agree with what Rod says about David's good intensions and perseverance in 
organizing NaturFest. Many would have given up after last year's efforts. I had 
planned to attend but due to more important obligations, it appears I will not.

Fritz

________________________________
From: Rod Goke [mailto:rod.g...@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 12:23 PM
To: David; Cavers Texas
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] NaturFest - major update


David,

Fortunately, this Facebook link, unlike the earlier one, does not require us to 
register with Facebook before seeing what you are trying to show us. If you 
want to reference Facebook in messages posted to Texascavers, this is a much 
better way to do it. Some of us have strong ethical reasons for not registering 
with Facebook and do not believe that Texascavers or caving related events 
should be used to pressure people into registering with Facebook before we can 
read caving related announcements. I have no objection, however, to the way you 
used Facebook in this message. The only potential problem I wonder about with 
this method of using Facebook is whether or not it would be sufficiently 
private for more sensitive announcements that you would not want just anyone on 
the Internet to be able to discover and access via a search engine. I'm not 
sure whether or not that vulnerability exists with the Facebook mechanism used 
here, and, of course, many caving related announcements are not sensitive 
enough for this to be problem, anyway.

I do appreciate what you have been doing to organize NaturFest and invite the 
caving community. Caving is about more than caves, and there are no "typical 
cavers". The caving community is a diverse group if unique characters, in which 
individual eccentricities aren't just tolerated, they're savored, more so than 
in any other group I've encountered. Sometimes cavers gripe about each other, 
but more often than not, it's done with a sense of amusement rather than 
intolerance. Like a large extended family, the caving community spans multiple 
generations and fosters friendships that last a lifetime. Shared interest in 
caves and caving brings us together, but it's the unique caver culture that 
keeps us together for the long run. I probably won't make it to NaturFest in 
person this year, but I do think you are to be commended for arranging it.

Rod

-----Original Message-----
>From: David
>Sent: May 20, 2011 12:17 AM
>To: Cavers Texas
>Subject: [Texascavers] NaturFest - major update
>
>NaturFest Association is in full control of Camp Happy Hollow for the next
>3 days.
>
>I took photos of the camp this afternoon, and posted them on Facebook at
>
>http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.213650865323204
>
>If you can show me a better way to do that, I will eat guano.
>
>Anyone arriving Friday night will be on their own, however I hope
>to have the mid-nite movie set up, and a blender, but already hit a snag,
>as I can't find the power cord to the movie player.
>
>Gate code is 4490. Please keep gate locked. If you can't find anybody,
>just wait. I can't get there, until I get off work and load up all the event
>gear. Hopefully, that will be 8 pm. Realistically, 10 p.m.
>
>David Locklear
>President of NaturFest Association
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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>
--------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our 
website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: 
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Cavers in the Center of the Caving Universe are gathering at 434 W 2nd 
(Downtown Austin) around 5:45PM to catch the 6PM showing of this movie.  All 
are welcome to join...              

Tickets are $14 plus $1 surcharge for the 3D glasses = $15

To my knowledge so far there are 10 of us at least so the tickets will be $13 
if you get there for the group gathering at the ticket counter at 5:45 this PM.

Thank you,                Bob

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Damn, some things are cheaper in Houston:  Only $10 here (not matinée) and no 
glasses fee.


Roger





-----Original Message-----
From: Bob West <rawest...@hotmail.com>
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 1:17 pm
Subject: [Texascavers] Cave of Forgotten Dreams 3D


Cavers in the Center of the Caving Universe are gathering at 434 W 2nd 
(Downtown Austin) around 5:45PM to catch the 6PM showing of this movie.  All 
are welcome to join...              

Tickets are $14 plus $1 surcharge for the 3D glasses = $15

To my knowledge so far there are 10 of us at least so the tickets will be $13 
if you get there for the group gathering at the ticket counter at 5:45 this PM.

Thank you,                Bob
                      =

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 

                                Rod,  parking info...

4 Hour Validation

                                
        Violet Crown Cinema offers validation with purchase of a movie ticket. 
There is a maximum of 4 hours total validation. Regular posted rates 
apply after 4 hours. The parking garage is attached to the Cinema and is
 entered from San Antonio Street between 2nd and 3rd Streets.

        In addition to self-parking, Free Valet Parking is available to Cinema 
patrons at the valet stand located near the entrance to the Cinema (in 
front of Malaga). Please bring your parking ticket to our box 
office/guest services counter for validation.

                                

                                Snack Bar

                                
        Violet Crown’s Snack Bar offers traditional cinema concessions 
including fresh popped popcorn, candies, cookies, ice cream, ICEE’s, as 
well as healthy options including fruit and vegetable snacks.

        Food and beverage may be consumed anywhere in the cinema, including the
 auditoriums where the seats include table trays which fold out from the
 armrests, or in one of our sitting areas in the lower lounge, upper 
lounge, lobby, or outside patio area.   Patrons are encouraged to visit 
the Bar & Café and the Snack Bar to enjoy a drink or a snack, even 
if they do not purchase a movie ticket.
The Bar & Cafe

                                
        Violet Crown’s Bar & Cafe offers a full cocktail bar, including an 
extensive beer list with several local draft beers, and a wine list 
containing several affordable fine wines.

        

        The Bar & Cafe appetizer menu includes cheese plates, Mediterranean
 plates, french fries, pizzas, and hot dogs. The Bar & Cafe also 
serves hot and cold teas, soft drinks, espresso drinks and desserts.


                                Violet Crown Cinema

                                
        Violet Crown Cinema is a locally owned and operated cinema with four 
screens devoted to art, independent, documentary and international 
films.

        Violet Crown offers modern amenities including state-of-the-art digital
 sound and projection, comfortable seating, and stadium auditoriums with
 unobstructed sight lines. All seats for all shows are reserved and can 
be purchased at the cinema or on-line at www.violetcrowncinema.com

Downtown Austin jumps the ticket price up and the seat includes a table tray 
where you can take your snack and beer in to watch the movie.   Your in the 
Center of Texas Politics; the governor can afford $11,000 a month for a temp 
home while the mansion is being restored.....surely everyone can afford a $15 
movie ticket...


                                
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 13:43:32 -0500
From: rod.g...@earthlink.net
To: rawest...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cave of Forgotten Dreams 3D
CC: rod.g...@ieee.org




That's in downtown Austin, where parking is notoriously difficult to find and 
can be expensive. Where do you recommend parking 
there?rodrod.g...@ieee.org-----Original Message-----

From: Bob West 

Sent: May 20, 2011 1:17 PM

To: texascavers@texascavers.com

Subject: [Texascavers] Cave of Forgotten Dreams 3D




Cavers in the Center of the Caving Universe are gathering at 434 W 2nd 
(Downtown Austin) around 5:45PM to catch the 6PM showing of this movie.  All 
are welcome to join...              

Tickets are $14 plus $1 surcharge for the 3D glasses = $15

To my knowledge so far there are 10 of us at least so the tickets will be $13 
if you get there for the group gathering at the ticket counter at 5:45 this PM.

Thank you,                Bob

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This one is in *downtown* Austin, so the extra cost probably is for the "free parking" that the theater advertises on their website.
Rod
-----Original Message-----
From: caverarch
Sent: May 20, 2011 1:29 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cave of Forgotten Dreams 3D

Damn, some things are cheaper in Houston: Only $10 here (not matinée) and no glasses fee.


Roger





-----Original Message-----
From: Bob West
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 1:17 pm
Subject: [Texascavers] Cave of Forgotten Dreams 3D


Cavers in the Center of the Caving Universe are gathering at 434 W 2nd (Downtown Austin) around 5:45PM to catch the 6PM showing of this movie. All are welcome to join...

Tickets are $14 plus $1 surcharge for the 3D glasses = $15

To my knowledge so far there are 10 of us at least so the tickets will be $13 if you get there for the group gathering at the ticket counter at 5:45 this PM.

Thank you, Bob
=


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
This is a rough draft.
______________________

Year 23

Conversation between host and cavers:

Host:    Folks I am having a feast in the year 25,
             two years from now.

Caver #1:    Yo, homey, you ain't with the Roman Empire.

Host:           Yeh, but this is special feast.

Caver #2:    Dude, get with the program.   You are going
                    about it all wrong.

Host:           I have special fish.

Caver # 3    We ain't riding our camels across the scorchin'
                   desert for your stinkin fish.

Host:          I have a fancy grill.

Caver # 4    Dude, your missing the point.   We don't eat fish.
                   We only eat butterfly pasta with tofu.

Host:         But you have never had fish like this.

Caver # 5    Stop pestering us about this.


Year 24

Host:            The big feast is just a year away.

Caver # 6:      Who the f*ck are you ?   What gives you
                       the right?

Host:         The cavers here need a feast.

Caver # 7     You ain't playing with a full-deck dude.
                    The date of your feast is ridiculous.

Host:         But I have other places to be on the other
                side of the country.

Caver # 8     We are tired of hearing about your drama.
                   It is all about, "look at me, look what I am doing."

Host:      I am just having a big feast for crying out loud.
                Why all the fuss?

Caver # 9     Dude I am out of here.    We are done talking.


Year 25

Host:       Feast a success.    Thanks for coming.

--- End Message ---

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