Steve, Thanks for giving such a positive overview of the situation. It was realy a downer to read all the negative views. What you said about being "victims of our own success" is just the truth of the situation. Any pesimistic views will just drive any new interest from up and coming cavers away. Nobody of sound mind wants to be around negativity.
Thank you for all the history you (and many others) have created. Much ground work has been laid for the scientific work that can proceed because of all the effort that respective cavers have put in. The "good old days" are here and now. The future builds on the past. I hope the greying cavers don't undermine the foundation that has been laid. I continually talk about how great and positive the cavers are that I cave with. Thanks. Rob Wood ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Peerman <gypca...@comcast.net> To: Harvey DuChene <hrduch...@gmail.com> Sent: Tue, 29 May 2012 06:12:10 -0600 Subject: Re: [SWR] SWR 50th Anniversary Gathering > Harvey, Ken, > The argument about lack of freedom to do what we want in caves without > restrictions is much the same as arguments with any activity that humans pursue in an civilized society. Freedom is not free. With freedom comes responsibility. > There is a tendency to feel that rules are for everyone else. I don't > agree that we shot ourselves in the foot, in regards to the NCPA. We have to remember that we are part of the group "everyone". I do agree, however, that one "well placed bureaucrat" can "muck up the works". > The current mess with WNS seems to me to be due to a few misguided > bureaucrats. > At any rate, I don't think it serves the interest of the sport of > caving to decry the end of recreational caving. Caving has changed since many of us started. We are victims of our own success. I think we should focus on making sure that there is a place for sport caving as well as research. I think there is room for everyone. > > On May 28, 2012, at 11:13 PM, Harvey DuChene wrote: > > > Ken and all, > > > > Mostly I agree with you, even though I am an ist. If there is one place > > where I disagree, its that the problem isnt just the ists. I alluded to this in my talk. We used to be able to go caving just for the hell of it. No permits, no paper work, no restrictions. Now we have to get permission to do damn near everything. The National Cave Protection Act is being used by some in your (and my) government to protect caves. Trouble is, the caves are being protected from�..us. With the NCPA, we have shot ourselves in the foot. Maybe both feet. Its almost easier to go caving in some other country than it is to do it in our own, thanks to the NCPA. Because of certain individuals in bureaucratic positions, we are being shut out of the very caves we asked them to help us protect. Does anyone else besides me see irony, here? > > > > I sympathize, Ken. Part of the reason I dont go caving much anymore is > > because Im old and decrepit. But part of it is because of the restrictive rules and regulations imposed by certain people in our government agencies. > > > > There is a caveat, here. Some (perhaps many) of the folks working for the > > agencies are very good people who are sympathetic to the view of cavers. But it only takes one well placed bureaucrat to muck up the works. The NCPA has, indeed, bitten us in the ass! > > > > Dont blame it all on the ists. Some (perhaps most) of the blame needs to > > placed where it belongs � on the crats. > > > > Harvey DuChene > > > > From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Ken > > Harrington > > Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 5:43 PM > > To: SWR Cavers > > Subject: [SWR] SWR 50th Anniversery Gathering > > > > What a wonderful gathering of the great cave explorers of New Mexico this > > past weekend. These were the people who went where no one had gone before and probed the darkness to see what no one had seen before. They experimented with new designs for vertical gear to make things lighter and better for reaching those deep recesses of the mountains. There will never be another gathering like this. > > But it also was also significant in that it marked the end of the era of > > recreational caving. Never again will anyone be allowed to go recreational caving in Fort Stanton because it would be a fun thing to do. Nothing has brought this clearer to me than the BLM bunkhouse; where the walls are covered with the accomplishments of the ists who have taken over Fort Stanton Cave and caving in general. Mr. Fleming told me a while ago that he no longer goes caving as caving isnt fun any more. At the time I didnt understand him, but now I do. If all caving is being done to further research of the ists, then caving is a dying activity. Young people are not going to join us and go caving just to collect soil samples or watch a chosen few get to do all the exploration of new places. Preservation of the caves is a waste of time if there is not going to be any one in the future to appreciate the caves for what there are, and the natural grandness of them. > > The 50th was a wonderful event and congratulations to all who made it a > > success. I had a great time but left with a heavy heart as I realized that caving as I knew it is a dead art form. > > > > Ken > > > > Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the > > rain. > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > > database 7176 (20120528) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > > database 7176 (20120528) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > > SWR mailing list > > s...@caver.net > > http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net > > Steve Peerman > > "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you > didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." > attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having written this.
_______________________________________________ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
