Julie, thanks for sharing those very well-considered thoughts. You are
absolutely correct. Often, it is tempting to share a little too much
information beyond the appropriate venue.
===Carl Kunath
----- Original Message -----
From: Jules Jenkins
To: Texas Cavers ; John Brooks
Cc: joezame...@hotmail.com ; andyzen...@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Airmen's Cave
All,
I generally wouldn't respond to this type of email, I'd view it, enjoy
it, and toss it. However, for more than a decade a couple of us have worked
with the city of Austin to develop a trust relationship, to embody the cave
community as a responsible group of individuals who care about the karst and
protecting our cave resources. We've worked very diligently to help the city
feel comfortable and safe with cavers and their activities. In other words,
we've built ourselves into a position as an asset to the city for their caves,
we're the unofficial 'eyes and ears on the karst'. The local caving community
does lots of outreach, education, and guides lots and lots of cave trips. This
relationship which, at best allows cavers a lot of freedom in usage is also
very tenuous and problems often have resulted in cavers loosing access, even
when it's not been a caver caused problem. I feel compelled to respond to this
email posting and hope that by addressing this I don't inflame the caver
community but, rather get you all to think and consider the impact of your
actions.
Although these video segments are somewhat factual and somewhat
amusing, it's posting video's such as these, providing exact directions and
encouraging the internet world at large by providing so much info that it
threatens the continued open access to this cave and potentially other Austin
area caves owned by the city.
The August 2007 Airmen's search, which one of these guys states he was
involved with has still not been resolved and the city of Austin, who owns the
cave is still seriously looking at gating the cave. This sort of encouragement
and advertisement of the cave will NOT help the situation.
I can appreciate that with all our technology, gps, video, digital
cameras, internet etc. that it's tough to maintain the caver 'ethic' of NOT
giving out locations but, if we as the caving community do not continue this
practice we will very likely loose access to this cave and perhaps if we're not
more cautious and responsible for our actions we could loose access to the
other caves in Austin that cavers currently have access to.
Having been called out by the fire dept. on the August search for the
UT students, I don't recall these guys at all being involved but, then I was
busy locating the students. What I learned from the experience and can share
w/the entire caving community is that the city has huge very real concerns over
location information going out to the internet and this kind of information as
well as videos on utube, links being sent out w/photos from trips that were
taken to caves that are only open for scientific research access. This puts our
caving community in a very tenuous position with the city decision makers. We
stand to loose our access privprivilegesause this kind of widespread and
specific information increases the potential for unprepared individuals to
attempt to do the cave trip, likely resulting in other 'rescues' or 'searches',
which translates to problems, lots of $$'s on the part of the city, lots of
outcry from the tax paying public, and potential life threatening danger to the
non prepared cave visitor.
Whether you all live in Austin or not, every incident right, wrong, or
indifferent reflects on the Austin caving community. If we're shut out, and ALL
the caves gated, access denied, then we all loose. It may not make a difference
to non Austin cavers but, it does make a difference to the Austin caving
community.
I've just been contacted again by the city to meet to look at the
problems and issues that have arisen regarding 'rescues', the cost the Austin's
citizens (nearly 20K for this last incident with UT students) and the potential
liability for the city, and it's going to be very difficult to emploimplorecity
to leave Airmen's open, and to allow cavers continued access when cavers
continue to publicize locations, names, and techniques. And believe me, they
will have already seen this email link before we meet at the end of the week,
you see they're on cavetex, too.!!
This is a plea to the caving community to discontinue publicizing by
whatever method directions, locations, how-to's, and commentary about caves in
general but, more specifically Austin caves. Y'all are killin' us in Austin
and we're not going to be able to justify asking that the caves remain open
with so much info out on the internet.
Conversely, from the city prospective whose mandate is one of
protecting the public both from danger and from unreasonable costs to the city
and it's tax paying citizens, duh, it's gonna make sense for them to gate the
cave reduce or eliminate the problem or potential for problems.
Y'all are making this a battle that can't be won by providing this sort
of detailed information.
And I gotta tell you once it's gone we're not likely to ever get it
back.
Again, please think before you decide you're going to post something to
the internet. If you gotta share, do it with a small select group, not the
world and not cavetex at large.
You know anyone can join cavetex and there are several city staff folks
who read cavetex.
If we don't police ourselves, the city, who owns most of the caves in
Austin area will police us, and that will take the form of NO ACCESS at worst
and very controlled, limited access at best.
thanks,
Julie Jenkins
--- On Tue, 9/23/08, John Brooks <jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: John Brooks <jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: Airmen's Cave
To: "Texas Cavers" <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 1:37 AM
Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:
From: Joe Zamecki <joezame...@hotmail.com>
Date: September 21, 2008 11:45:48 PM CDT
To: <chair...@cavetexas.org>
Subject: Airmen's Cave
Howdy! I went with a friend into Airmen's Cave, the first few dozen
feet anyway, and we got
some nice video. I wanted to share it with you and your group:
1 Getting There: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tzdmqtNRWo
2 Getting Into: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQLND4X94t4
3 Getting Out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYek28q95hI
4 Chattin': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThWzE6JwM8g
Seeya!
Joe Zamecki
Austin, TX
--------------------------------------------------------------------
See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are
part of your life. See Now
