I would agree to an extent......
Airman's has been a well known/unknown cave for years. We do not need to
gate Airmans as besides the fact the cave is quite extensive and poses a
getting lost threat there really is no substantial danger to the would be
explorer as long as they heed the basic rules of caving.
I noticed while I was in colorado visiting some caves in the Durango area
that they had given up on gating most of their caves and resorted to simply
posting a sign out front touting the cave softly slogan and a few words about
having adequate light sources and notifying others of your exploit in the
eventuality that you got trapped or lost. Maybe posting a sign just inside the
entrance tunnel could be worth consideration given that anyone googling Airmens
cave can find dozens of web sites with location data. Typically the nature of
the cave and the ordeal of getting into the cave pretty much precludes everyone
but the most adventourous and thin persons. I would agree that we do not need
to have directions given out on the 5 o'clock news or on the front page of the
Life section in the Statesman. And caves that pose vertical hazards, have
biological concern, and/or asthetic value should cetainly have restricted
access.
Not gating the cave promotes caving more than the alternative. There are no
formations to be destroyed with the exception to the farthest reaches to which
few ever make the mile long journey to. Most of those turn back at the wire
wiggle. I am sure there are hundreds of people out there who have managed to
brave the knee pounding endless crawls and escaped to have a great adventure to
share with their friends and even go as far as to motivate some to seek out the
UT grotto.
Personaly I can think of better things to spend my tax dollars on.
SS
> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:46:02 -0500> From: sandi-calh...@mail.utexas.edu>
> To: carl.kun...@suddenlink.net> CC: texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re:
> [Texascavers] Airmen's Cave> > I second Julie's post. I was also a part of
> the August 07 rescue, and would not> want to do it again (although I would if
> necessary). I'm sure the youtube clips> were well-intentioned, and I in no
> way want to bitch at anyone here, but not> everyone can or should go into a
> cave.> > Sandi> > > ----- Original Message -----> > From: Jules Jenkins> >
> To: Texas Cavers ; John Brooks> > Cc: joezame...@hotmail.com ;
> andyzen...@yahoo.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:14 AM> > Subject:
> Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Airmen's Cave> >> >> > All,> > I generally wouldn't
> respond to this type of email, I'd view it,> > enjoy it, and toss it.
> However, for more than a decade a couple of us have> > worked with the city
> of Austin to develop a trust relationship, to embody the> > cave community as
> a responsible group of individuals who care about the karst> > and protecting
> our cave resources. We've worked very diligently to help the> > city feel
> comfortable and safe with cavers and their activities. In other> > words,
> we've built ourselves into a position as an asset to the city for> > their
> caves, we're the unofficial 'eyes and ears on the karst'. The local> > caving
> community does lots of outreach, education, and guides lots and lots> > of
> cave trips. This relationship which, at best allows cavers a lot of> >
> freedom in usage is also very tenuous and problems often have resulted in> >
> cavers loosing access, even when it's not been a caver caused problem. I
> feel> > compelled to respond to this email posting and hope that by
> addressing this> > I don't inflame the caver community but, rather get you
> all to think and> > consider the impact of your actions.> >> > Although these
> video segments are somewhat factual and somewhat> > amusing, it's posting
> video's such as these, providing exact directions and> > encouraging the
> internet world at large by providing so much info that it> > threatens the
> continued open access to this cave and potentially other Austin> > area caves
> owned by the city.> >> > The August 2007 Airmen's search, which one of these
> guys states he> > was involved with has still not been resolved and the city
> of Austin, who> > owns the cave is still seriously looking at gating the
> cave. This sort of> > encouragement and advertisement of the cave will NOT
> help the situation.> >> > I can appreciate that with all our technology, gps,
> video, digital> > cameras, internet etc. that it's tough to maintain the
> caver 'ethic' of NOT> > giving out locations but, if we as the caving
> community do not continue this> > practice we will very likely loose access
> to this cave and perhaps if we're> > not more cautious and responsible for
> our actions we could loose access to> > the other caves in Austin that cavers
> currently have access to.> >> > Having been called out by the fire dept. on
> the August search for the> > UT students, I don't recall these guys at all
> being involved but, then I was> > busy locating the students. What I learned
> from the experience and can share> > w/the entire caving community is that
> the city has huge very real concerns> > over location information going out
> to the internet and this kind of> > information as well as videos on utube,
> links being sent out w/photos from> > trips that were taken to caves that are
> only open for scientific research> > access. This puts our caving community
> in a very tenuous position with the> > city decision makers. We stand to
> loose our access privprivilegesause this> > kind of widespread and specific
> information increases the potential for> > unprepared individuals to attempt
> to do the cave trip, likely resulting in> > other 'rescues' or 'searches',
> which translates to problems, lots of $$'s on> > the part of the city, lots
> of outcry from the tax paying public, and> > potential life threatening
> danger to the non prepared cave visitor.> >> > Whether you all live in Austin
> or not, every incident right, wrong,> > or indifferent reflects on the Austin
> caving community. If we're shut out,> > and ALL the caves gated, access
> denied, then we all loose. It may not make a> > difference to non Austin
> cavers but, it does make a difference to the Austin> > caving community.> >>
> > I've just been contacted again by the city to meet to look at the> >
> problems and issues that have arisen regarding 'rescues', the cost the> >
> Austin's citizens (nearly 20K for this last incident with UT students) and> >
> the potential liability for the city, and it's going to be very difficult to>
> > emploimplorecity to leave Airmen's open, and to allow cavers continued
> access> > when cavers continue to publicize locations, names, and techniques.
> And> > believe me, they will have already seen this email link before we meet
> at the> > end of the week, you see they're on cavetex, too.!!> >> > This is a
> plea to the caving community to discontinue publicizing by> > whatever method
> directions, locations, how-to's, and commentary about caves> > in general
> but, more specifically Austin caves. Y'all are killin' us in> > Austin and
> we're not going to be able to justify asking that the caves remain> > open
> with so much info out on the internet.> >> > Conversely, from the city
> prospective whose mandate is one of> > protecting the public both from danger
> and from unreasonable costs to the> > city and it's tax paying citizens, duh,
> it's gonna make sense for them to> > gate the cave reduce or eliminate the
> problem or potential for problems.> > Y'all are making this a battle that
> can't be won by providing this> > sort of detailed information.> > And I
> gotta tell you once it's gone we're not likely to ever get it> > back.> >> >
> Again, please think before you decide you're going to post something> > to
> the internet. If you gotta share, do it with a small select group, not the> >
> world and not cavetex at large.> > You know anyone can join cavetex and there
> are several city staff> > folks who read cavetex.> > If we don't police
> ourselves, the city, who owns most of the caves in> > Austin area will police
> us, and that will take the form of NO ACCESS at worst> > and very controlled,
> limited access at best.> >> > thanks,> > Julie Jenkins> >> >> > --- On Tue,
> 9/23/08, John Brooks <jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> >> > From: John
> Brooks <jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net>> > Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: Airmen's
> Cave> > To: "Texas Cavers" <texascavers@texascavers.com>> > Date: Tuesday,
> September 23, 2008, 1:37 AM> >> >> >> >> > Sent from my iPhone> >> > Begin
> forwarded message:> >> >> > From: Joe Zamecki <joezame...@hotmail.com>> >
> Date: September 21, 2008 11:45:48 PM CDT> > To: <chair...@cavetexas.org>> >
> Subject: Airmen's Cave> >> >> > Howdy! I went with a friend into Airmen's
> Cave, the first few> > dozen feet anyway, and we got> > some nice video. I
> wanted to share it with you and your group:> >> > 1 Getting There:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tzdmqtNRWo> > 2 Getting Into:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQLND4X94t4> > 3 Getting Out:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYek28q95hI> > 4 Chattin':
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThWzE6JwM8g> >> > Seeya!> > Joe Zamecki> >
> Austin, TX> >> >> >> >> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------> > See
> how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that> > are part of
> your life. See Now> >> >> > > Sandi Calhoun> EID: SKC452> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------> Visit
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