I second Julie's post. I was also a part of the August 07 rescue, and would not want to do it again (although I would if necessary). I'm sure the youtube clips were well-intentioned, and I in no way want to bitch at anyone here, but not everyone can or should go into a cave.
Sandi > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jules Jenkins > To: Texas Cavers ; John Brooks > Cc: joezame...@hotmail.com ; andyzen...@yahoo.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:14 AM > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Airmen's Cave > > > All, > I generally wouldn't respond to this type of email, I'd view it, > enjoy it, and toss it. However, for more than a decade a couple of us have > worked with the city of Austin to develop a trust relationship, to embody the > cave community as a responsible group of individuals who care about the karst > and protecting our cave resources. We've worked very diligently to help the > city feel comfortable and safe with cavers and their activities. In other > words, we've built ourselves into a position as an asset to the city for > their caves, we're the unofficial 'eyes and ears on the karst'. The local > caving community does lots of outreach, education, and guides lots and lots > of cave trips. This relationship which, at best allows cavers a lot of > freedom in usage is also very tenuous and problems often have resulted in > cavers loosing access, even when it's not been a caver caused problem. I feel > compelled to respond to this email posting and hope that by addressing this > I don't inflame the caver community but, rather get you all to think and > consider the impact of your actions. > > Although these video segments are somewhat factual and somewhat > amusing, it's posting video's such as these, providing exact directions and > encouraging the internet world at large by providing so much info that it > threatens the continued open access to this cave and potentially other Austin > area caves owned by the city. > > The August 2007 Airmen's search, which one of these guys states he > was involved with has still not been resolved and the city of Austin, who > owns the cave is still seriously looking at gating the cave. This sort of > encouragement and advertisement of the cave will NOT help the situation. > > I can appreciate that with all our technology, gps, video, digital > cameras, internet etc. that it's tough to maintain the caver 'ethic' of NOT > giving out locations but, if we as the caving community do not continue this > practice we will very likely loose access to this cave and perhaps if we're > not more cautious and responsible for our actions we could loose access to > the other caves in Austin that cavers currently have access to. > > Having been called out by the fire dept. on the August search for the > UT students, I don't recall these guys at all being involved but, then I was > busy locating the students. What I learned from the experience and can share > w/the entire caving community is that the city has huge very real concerns > over location information going out to the internet and this kind of > information as well as videos on utube, links being sent out w/photos from > trips that were taken to caves that are only open for scientific research > access. This puts our caving community in a very tenuous position with the > city decision makers. We stand to loose our access privprivilegesause this > kind of widespread and specific information increases the potential for > unprepared individuals to attempt to do the cave trip, likely resulting in > other 'rescues' or 'searches', which translates to problems, lots of $$'s on > the part of the city, lots of outcry from the tax paying public, and > potential life threatening danger to the non prepared cave visitor. > > Whether you all live in Austin or not, every incident right, wrong, > or indifferent reflects on the Austin caving community. If we're shut out, > and ALL the caves gated, access denied, then we all loose. It may not make a > difference to non Austin cavers but, it does make a difference to the Austin > caving community. > > I've just been contacted again by the city to meet to look at the > problems and issues that have arisen regarding 'rescues', the cost the > Austin's citizens (nearly 20K for this last incident with UT students) and > the potential liability for the city, and it's going to be very difficult to > emploimplorecity to leave Airmen's open, and to allow cavers continued access > when cavers continue to publicize locations, names, and techniques. And > believe me, they will have already seen this email link before we meet at the > end of the week, you see they're on cavetex, too.!! > > This is a plea to the caving community to discontinue publicizing by > whatever method directions, locations, how-to's, and commentary about caves > in general but, more specifically Austin caves. Y'all are killin' us in > Austin and we're not going to be able to justify asking that the caves remain > open with so much info out on the internet. > > Conversely, from the city prospective whose mandate is one of > protecting the public both from danger and from unreasonable costs to the > city and it's tax paying citizens, duh, it's gonna make sense for them to > gate the cave reduce or eliminate the problem or potential for problems. > Y'all are making this a battle that can't be won by providing this > sort of detailed information. > And I gotta tell you once it's gone we're not likely to ever get it > back. > > Again, please think before you decide you're going to post something > to the internet. If you gotta share, do it with a small select group, not the > world and not cavetex at large. > You know anyone can join cavetex and there are several city staff > folks who read cavetex. > If we don't police ourselves, the city, who owns most of the caves in > Austin area will police us, and that will take the form of NO ACCESS at worst > and very controlled, limited access at best. > > thanks, > Julie Jenkins > > > --- On Tue, 9/23/08, John Brooks <jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > From: John Brooks <jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net> > Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: Airmen's Cave > To: "Texas Cavers" <texascavers@texascavers.com> > Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 1:37 AM > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: Joe Zamecki <joezame...@hotmail.com> > Date: September 21, 2008 11:45:48 PM CDT > To: <chair...@cavetexas.org> > Subject: Airmen's Cave > > > Howdy! I went with a friend into Airmen's Cave, the first few > dozen feet anyway, and we got > some nice video. I wanted to share it with you and your group: > > 1 Getting There: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tzdmqtNRWo > 2 Getting Into: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQLND4X94t4 > 3 Getting Out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYek28q95hI > 4 Chattin': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThWzE6JwM8g > > Seeya! > Joe Zamecki > Austin, TX > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that > are part of your life. See Now > > Sandi Calhoun EID: SKC452 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
