I agree that it’s put up or shut up, but there is also a competence thing going on, too. There need to be incentives for being competent, and disincentives for screwing everyone who is depending on you, and disincentives for dictatorships. katie arens On Oct 26, 2016, at 16:02, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote:
I think Don’s point was “put up or shut up”. Lots of people are swift to criticize, but are then back of the queue when volunteering to help… Stefan Creaser Staff Design Engineer; Physical Design Group; ARM 5707 Southwest Parkway, Bldg 1, Suite 100, Austin, TX 78735, USA. Direct: +1-512-314-1012, Internal: 11012. Email: stefan.crea...@arm.com<mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com>. Skype: stefan_creaser From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Sheryl Rieck via Texascavers Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 4:00 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver These folks are volunteers. You should appreciate volunteers for the effort they put into whatever task they own. They certainly aren't doing it for the admiration. Otherwise, pay someone. Or do it yourself. Sheryl Rieck sheryl.ri...@gmail.com<mailto:sheryl.ri...@gmail.com> "You can't always get what you want but if you try sometime, you just might find you get what you need" Rolling Stones On Oct 26, 2016, at 12:53 PM, Don Arburn via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote: As a trained and educated artist, recent volunteer Texas Cavers Reunion cat herder, and past Texas Caver Editor (a particularly thankless job) I have always found plenty of folks to endlessly criticize or complain, it's an integral part of the job and one learns to recognize the difference between "criticism" & "opinion". However, novices (volunteers who stepped up to do a job when no one else would) aren't usually trained or skilled or ready to deal with criticism. It can be counterproductive. At TCR typically I ask critics to step up and help solve whatever they think isn't happening to their expectation. One of two things happens; they step up and do something -or- they shut up and do nothing. In my experience the vast majority of complainers choose the latter. At TCR, lots of people voice ideas about how it -should- be done, and I get tons of criticism of how "it got done wrong", or how "it should be done in the future" or how "it was done better in the past". Plenty of suggestions, oodles of constructive ideas. But when it come time for those same volunteers to step up and stand behind their suggestions and help - very very few ever follow through. Ever. They usually disappear with the words "how about helping out then?" The ones that actually see the job done are the ones who want it done and do it. Criticism can be constructive, such as when someone expects it or asks for it. Or the critic is willing to step in and help firsthand, which is usually welcomed. Especially useful are wisdom and experience. Otherwise it's just opinion. When someone is struggling on the side of a busy highway trying to change a flat tire, it's real easy to drive past and shout out the window "lift with your knees!" --Don --Don On Oct 26, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Carl Kunath via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote: The Texas Caver So here we go again with the Texas Caver. Every few years we are seeking a new editor or at least discussing options that might disburse the rowdy crowds that are assembling at the gates with torches and pitchforks. What is gong on here? Why is it that every few years there is a Texas Caver crisis and a less than graceful transition to a new editor? There is lots of talk about the Texas Caver. From the outset, there seems to have been some confusion regarding the difference between good journalism and nice graphic arts. Unfortunately, neither has been regularly in evidence. Maybe I've missed it, but I can't recall anyone praising the Caver for high quality journalism or the reliability of production. The editor has a few passionate defenders who are willing to do battle with any and all detractors, but the current editorial has now acknowledged what has been evident for several years. The coming transition is an opportunity to learn from previous mistakes. Texas cavers appreciate good grammar, proper spelling, and nice graphics but, failing that, are willing to forgive a lot if the Caver shows signs of having been carefully crafted with attention to detail: nice photographs properly captioned and credited; articles well laid out with all elements present; no space used as a personal blog; and perhaps most importantly, timely production. I was handed a copy of the most recent Texas Caver at the TSA meeting Sunday morning, October 16. When I looked at the cover, my first thought was "huh?" I rotated the page through 360 degrees as I searched in vain for a person or anything for scale. Despairing, I then looked inside for the caption information. I didn't find much. The picture credits Peter Bosted and apparently depicts a scene from the Big Island, Hawaii. I infer that it pictures something within a cave and is not merely a hand sample from a flea market or mineral show. As usual, there is no proper caption information. A closer look at the cover reveals "haul" to be misspelled and a Government Canyon report proffered as being from "2105." Those errors are egregious and, sadly, are but a preview of others to come. In the present issue (the word "current" can't properly be applied since it is about six months late), pages 4 and 5 are mostly filled with pictures—none with caption information—and the top photo on page 4 suffers from a lack of pixel information by at least one order of magnitude. Where is the graphic arts expertise we are often reminded of? If a photo is essential and a small file is the best available, then please reduce the printed size. At the top of page 5 there is a full half page devoted to two guys stirring a large pot of food. What about the "hero" shot at the top of page 6? Neither photo is captioned or credited. It's a poor use of space that TSA's hard copy subscribers are paying for. In fact, there is a lot of "white space" in every issue. I am reminded of some prior issues with long personal "blogs" that should never have appeared in the Caver. Furthermore, we are subjected to the new English word, "givin." Page 8 treats us to another low resolution photo with no credit or caption. Page 9 credits the photographer but tells us nothing else. More of the same on pages 10-11. Sadly, this trend continues throughout the remainder of the issue with a few other photos offering no information whatsoever. This has been a problem for many years. The Editor seems unable to grasp the notion that a picture without caption information looses a major portion of its potential value. On pages 13-17 there is a change from two columns to three; then a change back to two columns for pages 18-22. Page 23 reverts to three columns once again. Oh, well. I wonder where the back cover photo was made. Is it a continuation of the "Forged in Fire" photos from the previous two pages? Who authored the few words of text that accompany the photos? "I had the good fortune. . . . We spent a day. . . ." It's discouraging to think that this is the best that Texas cavers can manage, The Texas Caver has a long tradition of service to the Texas caving community. It is the face that The Texas Speleological Association and Texas cavers show to the world. Prior to the advent of the Internet and all that it entails, both good and bad, the Caver was the primary means of communication within the Texas caving community. Its appearance on a timely schedule was critically important. When the Caver faltered, so did Texas caving. See pages 169-172 of 50 Years of Texas Caving for a more detailed story of the Texas Caver. Some feel that Facebook and other social media are an effective substitute for the Texas Caver. I disagree. Most of those postings will disappear quickly and do not constitute an archive of events in Texas caving. Moreover, they are not worthy venues for the occasional quality feature about some aspect of Texas caving. The Texas Caver is inextricably linked to the health of the TSA and to Texas caving in general. TSA members receive precious little for their membership dues: No membership list. No copy of the Constitution and By-Laws. No mission statement. No contact list of current officers and chairpersons. No special prices at TSA functions. Not even a membership card. Members pay dues and are promised a digital newsletter and offered the opportunity to pay extra for a hard copy newsletter. Why would you choose to join such an organization? Will TSA issue a refund or offer a membership extension to those who paid for printed newsletters? I was a TSA member for more than fifty years but finally dropped out in disgust a couple of years ago. In some ways the fate of the Caver is a self-fulfilling story. The enthusiasm of the general Texas caver populace is tied to the quality and timeliness of the publication. It only takes a few instances of mishandled submissions and delayed publication to discourage contributors from further support. The Caver should be the natural outlet and archive for articles of substance much as the NSS News is an outlet and archive for items of a more national nature. The Texas Caver HAS BEEN such a publication in the past. And when it was, Texas caving prospered. For example, I invite you to peruse the February 1971 issue of the Texas Caver (available from the Texas Speleological Survey or from the archives of http://nckri.org/ ). It's 20 pages, produced with a typewriter and all that entails. There is news from the A&I, Alamo, Dallas-Fort Worth, and Rice grottos plus an astonishing 17 (seventeen!) trip reports. There are other worthwhile features such as Caver of the Month that should be resurrected. Those were the days! Carl Kunath NSS #6230 RF-PH ________________________________ [Avast logo]<https://www.avast.com/antivirus> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/antivirus> _______________________________________________ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com<http://texascavers.com/> Texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com> | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers _______________________________________________ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com<http://texascavers.com/> Texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com> | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. 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