Respected sir, In previous postings Mr Rajaram copy pasted messages from Kanchi sankaracharya. The same Kanchi sankaracharya only told, caste of a person depends on his parents.I have read from Kanchi matam letters.
I am sure when I repeat here , Mr Rajaram will ask for proof!!! Regarding Varna, I too read the explanation he copied from some source. It is the first time I reading Varna is derived from vara. I cannot compete with wide knowledge Mr Rajaram. Further he has copied from some where,The word “caste” is derived from the Portuguese and Spanish word “casta”, meaning “race” or “breed”. It is synonymous to ‘jaati’." I could not control my laugh.!!! Gopalakrishnan On Monday, 20 May, 2024 at 03:44:00 pm IST, Narayanaswamy Iyer <iyern...@gmail.com> wrote: Dear folks Whenever the dead and buried hairless, toothless, witless, unlearned, illiterate, unschooled, uneducated aachaa-paatti old hag Karuppan-paatti K Rajaram ex-IRS 19524//20524 shrieks from her worm-crawling rotting cadaver six feet below ground, it starts with a couple of giant lies. And persists so to the very end. Displaying for public scrutiny her penchant for lying, and lying big, she starts off in her usual drain-gutter-sewer ungrammatical broken English:- (1) "Varana -- The word ‘varna’ is derived from the Sanskrit word ‘vara’, meaning “choice”. It is always a person’s choice to choose their varana." My comments:- "Varana" has nothing to do with "varna". The Sanskrit word "varanam" means, among other things, begging, soliciting, requesting, covering, screening, protecting, a rampart, surrounding wall, a ridge, a tree in general, a camel. "Vara" means best, excellent, most beautiful or precious, better and preferable, and so on. The four varnas are fully set out in our vedams as braahmana, kshathriya, vaishya, and shoodra, who each spring respectively from the various parts of the body of the original virad-purusha. It is NEVER a free choice for a new-born baby to choose his or her varna. The baby follows the varna of its legitimately married parents. (2) "SkandaPurana -- By birth one is a Shudra. Through rituals (samskaara), one is considered a dvija. One who has read the Vedas has become a Vipra and one who knows Brahman is a Brahmana." My comments:- A fallible mere human-originated puraanam has no authority to over-ride our vedams. (3) "A child aged around 11-12 years is supposed to go to a Guru and undergo initiation after which he/she is a dvija (twice-born). This procedure is called ‘Upanayana’ and following that one is said to be born from the Guru and the Vedas and is a Brahmachaari." My comments:- More lies, heaped on lies. A male child aged eight years born of braahmana parents is expected to undergo initiation into Vedic manthrams BY HIS FATHER (assisted by a braahmana priest if necessary) in the samskaaram called upanayanam. During this sacred rite the child is conferred the right to wear a yagnopaveetham, to perform the maadhyaahnikam (involving momentary surya-darishanam of the noonday Sun) and other sandhyaa-vandanams, and to perform the fire-ceremony called samidhaa-daanam. On completion, he is entitled to be called brahmachaari. (4) "After reading the four Vedas and following them, a student is a Vipra, the preliminary rank before becoming a Brahmana, Kshatriya or Vaishya." My comments:- The upanayanam does not confer the right to study the atharva-vedam. That requires a separate upanayanam involving occult and magical practices. Under the fulltime guidance of his guru (who may be the priest, father, elder brother, uncle or other learned individual) the brahmachaari studies the r'g, yajur and saama vedams. On completion, which might well take eight to sixteen years, and giving his guru the guru-dakshina, he takes the ceremonial graduation bath by triple immersion in the sea or flowing river. He is then known as a vipra. He is free to perform the samskaaram of vivaaham (marry a virgin of his varna), and start a family. (5) "One would generally, having completed their education choose a varana that suits them," My comments:- Absolute rubbish again. The varna is determined at birth, as per our vedams. There never was a qjuestion of "choice". (6) "Varana vs. Varna: The Difference The word ‘varana’, translates to “a choice-based position in society”. It is derived from the word ‘Vara’ (choice), similar to Swayamvara, a ceremony where a princess ‘chooses’ her husband." My comments:- Again, absolute trash. I have set out above the difference between the two words. In the expression "svayam-vara", the word "vara" means "husband". (7) "The word “caste” is derived from the Portuguese and Spanish word “casta”, meaning “race” or “breed”. It is synonymous to ‘jaati’." My comments:- Absolute nonsense, as usual. The word "caste" is actually derived from the Latin word "casta", meaning CHASTE, i.e. virgin, refraining from sexual activity and lewd thoughts, improper association with members of the opposite gender, pure, clean, vowed to chastity and purity. "Jaathi" actually is a Sanskrit-derived word denoting birth, such as jaayathe, jananam, janma nakshathram, jaathagam, "padbyaagum shoodro ajaayatha", "dvi-jaa" meaning twice-born. We still use the English classical words "genitor" and "genitress" meaning "father" and "mother". (8) "Are there any examples from scriptures of people changing their varanas or belonging to a different one than that of their parents? There are many examples of this from various scriptures. You will find several in the Vishnu Purana." My comments:- As I said earlier, the puraanaas written by fallible humans and not derived from divine sources, have no authority to over-ride the vedams. If our vedams say one varna came from the virad purusha's feet, they can in no way say that they can climb upwards (like a new-born baby kangaroo seeking its mother's nipples) and pretend to come from the purusha's mouth. A crow cannot become a peacock by putting on the peacock's feathers. Moreover, the law of gravity works only in one way -- from up to down. Not the reverse, whatever the non-vedams say. As for Raavana, he remained a braahmana, albeit a raakshasa. The two identities are not mutually exclusive. As for Vidoora, son of rapist illegitimate Vyaasa and royal widow Ambaalika's servant-maid (whom Ambaalika sent as she did not wished to be raped again) , he never was a braahmana (nor a vaishya nor a kshathriya), but remained the same varna as his mother the shoodran sevant-maid of a royal widow. As for Vishvaamithra, he remained a raajarishi, belonging to the kshathriya varna. Brahmarishi Vashishta refused to countenance Vishvamithra as having ascended to the varna of braahmanas. He merely commented, when approached by the latter's disciples, "If so, let it be," meaning, "If you wish to so call him, let it be." S Narayanaswamy Iyer On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 12:19 PM Rajaram Krishnamurthy <keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote: Sure sir tomorrow i shall K R On Sun, May 19, 2024, 10:36 PM 'Bala N. Aiyer' via KeralaIyers <keralaiy...@googlegroups.com> wrote: Dear Sri Rajaraman Ji: The sloka you have quoted "Janmanaa..." from Skanda Purana, I was given to understand that it is seen in Manu Smriti - Manu Dharma Sasthra. Can you please confirm if this is also true, Since we discuss this sloka often. If this is seen in several places? Bala N. Aiyer On Sunday, May 19, 2024 at 10:08:17 PM CDT, Rajaram Krishnamurthy <keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote: Varana The word ‘varna’ is derived from the Sanskrit word ‘vara’, meaning“choice”. It is always a person’s choice to choose their varana. What is thebasis of this procedure? This is clearly explained in the following shloka fromthe SkandaPurana: जन्मनाजायतेशूद्रःसंस्कारात्द्विजउच्यते। वेदापठत्भवेत्विप्रःब्रह्मजानातीब्राह्मणः॥ Janmanaajaayateshudrahasamskaaratdvijauchyate। Vedaapatatbhavetvipraha, Brahma jaanaatibraahmanaha॥ Janmaana– By birth; jaayate– born as; shudraha– the lowestvarana; samskaaraat – through rituals(Upanayana); dvija–twice-born (dve – two;ja –born);uchyate –declared as; apatat – has read (the Veda); bhavet –became; Vipra – the educated qualification; jaanaati –knows;Braahmanaha–the topmost varana; “By birth one is a Shudra. Through rituals (samskaara), one isconsidered a dvija. One who has read the Vedas has become a Vipra and one whoknows Brahman is a Brahmana.” -SkandaPurana, Khanda (canto) 6 (NagaraKhanda), Chapter 239, Shlokas 31-34 This is the exact procedure a person used to follow in the ancienttimes – to get educated and choose any of the varanas. This is also mentionedin the Atharva Veda (Khanda 11, Sukta 5, Mantra 3). A child aged around 11-12 years is supposed to go to a Guru and undergoinitiation after which he/she is a dvija (twice-born). This procedure is called‘Upanayana’ and following that one is said to be born from the Guru and theVedas and is a Brahmachaari. This is the reason why they are referred to as‘dvija’, or “twice-born”. The first birth is the physical one and the second isUpanayana. The student is then expected to practice the principles ofBrahmachaarya to maintain their elevated status and to remain eligible topractice the Vedas (even after completing education and becoming a member ofthe Tri-varanas). After reading the four Vedas and following them, a student isa Vipra, the preliminary rank before becoming a Brahmana, Kshatriya or Vaishya.In the scriptures, one would generally complete education and choose a varanathat suits them, at the age of 14-15 years, after their education. In Srimad Bhagavatam (Canto 11, Chapter 17, Shlokas 10-13), it isdescribed, that in Satya Yuga (or Krta Yuga), there was only one varana called‘Hamsa’. Everyone was a devotee of the Supreme Lord from birth and was bornwith wisdom. Hence, all were sincere and there was only dharma in that age. A Brahmana is one who knows Brahman. Hence, all were consideredequal to Brahmanas in the Satya Yuga. Later, people who revolted becameKshatriyas, those who were engaged in farming and trading-related activitiesbecame Vaishyas and those who stopped learning and following the Vedas becameShudras. The same cycle repeats in every Maha Yuga (one cycle of four Yugas). Varana vs. Varna: The Difference The word ‘varana’, translatesto “a choice-based position in society”. It isderived from the word ‘Vara’ (choice), similar to Swayamvara, aceremony where a princess ‘chooses’ her husband. The word ‘Varna’, can be used as a short-form of the word ‘varana’, asused in certain scriptures like the Bhagavata Purana. Otherwise, it means“colour” and has nothing to do with a person’s social class. The Differencebetween Jaati and Varana Nowadays manyconsider jaati or caste, as a pre-requisite to attain a certainvarana or to study the Vedas. This is incorrect. The word “caste” isderived from the Portuguese and Spanish word “casta”, meaning “race” or“breed”. It is synonymous to ‘jaati’, but definitely not to varana. Jaati is one’s ethnicity ororigin. It does not determine their Varana. For example, in India, there arelawyers from various states. Is it logical to claim that all lawyers should beonly native -speakers and others should not be allowed to pursue law? Definitelynot! Similarly, the modern-day castesystem arose from selfishness, short-sightedness and lack of maturity of thepeople belonging to the Tri-Varanas, who turned the Varana system into castesystem, centuries ago. Now let us try and dispel some of the most common misconceptionsregarding Varanashrama - Is dvija the birth after death, where a person’s varana changes in their next birth? No. This is a prevalentmyth regarding the varana system. All are born Shudras, as mentioned in theshloka from the SkandaPurana. After learning the Vedas under the tutelageof a Guru, one becomes a Vipra. Then, depending on their mechanism of followingdharma, they are considered to be members of any of the three varanas, namely –Brahmana, Kshatriya and Vaishya. Even if an educated person commits a sin, they are downgraded to thelevel of a Shudra. (Manu Smriti, Chapter 2, Shlokas 103, 157 and 168; Chapter4, Shloka 245) - Why do certain shlokas say that one must be “born in the Veda” to pronounce the Vedic texts? For example, Manu Smriti, Chapter 2, Shloka 172 says this. Just read Manu Smriti, Chapter2, Shloka 148. It says that “a person’s true birth is by means of educationwhich is considered imperishable.” As mentioned above in this article, one mustundergo Upanayana to become a dvija. After that, the Vedas become one of theirparents. This concept is mentioned in Sage Apasthamba’ s Dharma Sutra and wasalso misinterpreted by B. R. Ambedkar, in his book,“Who Are the Shudras?” - Are women also allowed to get educated and attain a certain varana as per the Vedic rules? Why are women compared to Shudras by several present-day scholars? Yes, women are also supposedto have equal opportunities as men. There is no discrimination on the basis ofsex, as per Hinduism and the Vedic rules. There have been many female scholarslike Gargi, Maitreyi, Lopamudra, Gautami, etc. They also wore the sacredthread, yajnopavitam (यज्ञोपवीतम्),just like educated men, and also were Brahmachaariṇis. Moreover, the Rg Vedaand Atharva Veda explicitly state that men and women are supposed to practiceBrahmachaarya. (Refer to Rg Veda, Mandala 6, Sukta 44, Mantra 18; Mandala 10,Sukta 109, Mantra 5; Atharva Veda, Khanda 11, Sukta 5, Mantras 17 and 18) The trend of comparing womento Shudras started after the onset of the caste system, to prevent them fromreceiving education. This was all actually European influence. It has nowbecome a widespread misconception regarding the varana system. - Are there any examples from scriptures of people changing their varanas or belonging to a different one than that of their parents? Yes. It is said in theManu Smriti (Chapter 10, Shloka 65) that “it is always possible for a Brahmanato become a Shudra or vice versa. The same is applicable to the Kshatriya andVaishya”. There are many examples of this from various scriptures. You willfind several in the Vishnu Purana. A few are given below: - Prishadha, the son of Prajapati Daksha, although born to a Brahmana, became a Shudra. He performed tapasya and attained liberation. (Vishnu Purana, Khanda4, Chapter 1, Shloka 14) - Nabhaga, the son of a Kshatriya, became a Vaishya. Later, his own sons became Kshatriyas. (Vishnu Purana, Khanda4, Chapter 1, Shloka 13) - Nabhaga’s son, Drishta, became a Brahmana. His son became a Kshatriya. (Vishnu Purana, Khanda4, Chapter 2, Shloka 2) - Drishta’s grandchildren became Brahmanas again. (Vishnu Purana, Khanda9, Chapter 2, Shloka 23) - Raavana was the grandson of the Rishi Pulatsya, yet he became a rakshassha. - Vidura was raised by his mother, a servant. He was educated and became a Brahmana. Rishi Vishvamitra was formerlya Kshatriya who became a Brahmana, and moreover, a Brahmarshi. 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