Fwd: [iyer123] Re: [KeralaIyers] Pitu Gotra contd

Rajaram Krishnamurthy Tue, 21 May 2024 05:32:06 -0700

Swatch bharat sarama idhar aagaya; parivar jakde raho. KR

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: 'gopala krishnan' via iyer123 <iyer...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2024 at 01:05
Subject: Re: [iyer123] Re: [KeralaIyers] Pitu Gotra contd
To: iyer...@googlegroups.com <iyer...@googlegroups.com>

OK Mr Sharma
Gopalakrishnan

On Tuesday, 21 May, 2024 at 11:07:26 am IST, Laxminarayan Sarma <
laxminarayan.sa...@gmail.com> wrote:

*My dearest and Most Respected Fruend Gopalakrishnan-ji*

*Why do you have to descend to the gutter *

*level of the Telhengalai IYENGAR IRS Latriine*

*Cleaner. *

*I think getting abused by him must be*

*giving you pleasure. *

*It's like the Stockholm Syndrome where*

*the victim falls in love with his tormentor *

*and seeks vicarious satisfaction from*

*him*

*A time will arrive when there will be *

*nothing left to distinguish between you and *

*him*

*Don't descend to his level to such a depth *

*that people start hating you *

*Take this as a friend's genuine concern*

*for you.*

*Otherwise, go fly a kite. I will say no mire*

*Col. Laxminarayan Sarma *

On Tue, 21 May, 2024, 7:45 am 'gopala krishnan' via iyer123, <
iyer...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Mr Rajaram,

Have I wrote any thing in degrading manner? Why do you use degrading
words? This is your drawback. Afterwards you will write I started using
degrading words.
Gopalakrishnan

On Tuesday, 21 May, 2024 at 07:28:05 am IST, Rajaram Krishnamurthy <
keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote:

gopala krishnan

Respected sir,

In previous postings Mr Rajaram copy pasted messages from Kanchi
sankaracharya. The same Kanchi sankaracharya only told, caste of a person
depends on his parents. I have read from Kanchi matam letters.

I am sure when I repeat here , Mr Rajaram will ask for proof!!!

KR Undoubtedly; because, I am giving everything to test check; but you
two alone pouring as if you are a Raja Rishi and a super hero whose dictum
is veda. So write authentically; and you have to only copy and paste or
else it will hang only in air without content

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Regarding Varna, I too read the explanation he copied from some source. It
is the first time I reading Varna is derived from vara. I cannot compete
with wide knowledge Mr Rajaram.

KR If you do not know stop thee; do not jalra thinking he must be
correct. Because when his nose bleeds you also become apaart. I had written
elsewhere Read if you are honest and regret

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Further he has copied from some where,The word “caste” is derived from the
Portuguese and Spanish word “casta”, meaning “race” or “breed”. It is
synonymous to ‘jaati’."

KR That is why Nidanam is required or else you will be exposed as……

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I could not control my laugh.!!!

KR Now how would I laugh at L KG ?

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

gopala krishnan

Hello Mr Rajaram,

Who appreciated you as super Hero? Can't you recollect even Mr Madras
Sivaraman former I A S himself asked you recently , whether your posts are
your own or copy paste ?You tucked your tail and replied only 50% is your
own. I know only one note highlighted was yours. Are you not ashamed to say
you are a super hero.

KR When Duryodhanan went out he saw bad people only; but Dharma vision
was different So you too!! Your knowledge is so poor. You only write from
somewhere; and you also write: I know only one word is mine; contradicting
yourself. But you cannot blow my content with your truth if at all?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

There is a Tamil saying "Bommai, gopuram thankeetham".

A small idol installed on the top of the tower thought it was supporting
the tower. Your super hero is like that only.

I wrote to you many times, all members in the group has good caliber, some
very well above you like me.

Gopalakrishnan

KR Gopuram false etc does it matter from such a knowledgeable L K G?
Never sir. All write to me about your spectacular write up. Good keep it
up. The more exposed (a) vivekam is far better than these titbits you do!!
KR IRS 21524
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On Mon, 20 May 2024 at 07:50, gopala krishnan <gopa4...@yahoo.in> wrote:

Respected sir,

In previous postings Mr Rajaram copy pasted messages from Kanchi
sankaracharya. The same Kanchi sankaracharya only told, caste of a
person *depends
on his parents*.I have read from Kanchi matam letters.

I am sure when I repeat here , *Mr Rajaram will ask for proof!!!*

Regarding Varna, I too read the explanation he copied from some source. It
is the first time I reading Varna is derived from vara. I cannot compete
with wide knowledge Mr Rajaram.

Further he has copied from some where,*The word “caste” is derived from the
Portuguese and Spanish word “casta”, meaning “race” or “breed”. It is
synonymous to ‘jaati’*."

*I could not control my laugh.!!!*

Gopalakrishnan

On Monday, 20 May, 2024 at 03:44:00 pm IST, Narayanaswamy Iyer <
iyern...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear folks

Whenever the dead and buried hairless, toothless, witless, unlearned,
illiterate, unschooled, uneducated aachaa-paatti old hag Karuppan-paatti K
Rajaram ex-IRS 19524//20524 shrieks from her worm-crawling rotting cadaver
six feet below ground, it starts with a couple of giant lies. And persists
so to the very end.

Displaying for public scrutiny her penchant for lying, and lying big, she
starts off in her usual drain-gutter-sewer ungrammatical broken English:-

(1) "*Varana -- The word ‘varna’ is derived from the Sanskrit word
‘vara’, meaning “choice”. It is always a person’s choice to choose their
varana*."

My comments:-

"Varana" has nothing to do with "varna".

The Sanskrit word "varanam" means, among other things, begging, soliciting,
requesting, covering, screening, protecting, a rampart, surrounding wall, a
ridge, a tree in general, a camel.

"Vara" means best, excellent, most beautiful or precious, better and
preferable, and so on.

The four varnas are fully set out in our vedams as braahmana, kshathriya,
vaishya, and shoodra, who each spring respectively from the various parts
of the body of the original virad-purusha.

It is NEVER a free choice for a new-born baby to choose his or her varna.
The baby follows the varna of its legitimately married parents.

(2) "*SkandaPurana -- **By birth one is a Shudra. Through rituals
(samskaara), one is considered a dvija. One who has read the Vedas has
become a Vipra and one who knows Brahman is a Brahmana.*"

My comments:-

A fallible mere human-originated puraanam has no authority to over-ride our
vedams.

(3) "*A child aged around 11-12 years is supposed to go to a Guru and
undergo initiation after which he/she is a dvija (twice-born). This
procedure is called ‘Upanayana’ and following that one is said to be born
from the Guru and the Vedas and is a Brahmachaari."*

My comments:- More lies, heaped on lies.

A male child aged eight years born of braahmana parents is expected to
undergo initiation into Vedic manthrams *BY HIS FATHER* (assisted by a
braahmana priest if necessary) in the samskaaram called upanayanam.

During this sacred rite the child is conferred the right to wear a
yagnopaveetham, to perform the maadhyaahnikam (involving momentary
surya-darishanam of the noonday Sun) and other sandhyaa-vandanams, and to
perform the fire-ceremony called samidhaa-daanam.

On completion, he is entitled to be called brahmachaari.

(4) "*After reading the four Vedas and following them, a student is a
Vipra, the preliminary rank before becoming a Brahmana, Kshatriya or
Vaishya."*

My comments:-

The upanayanam does not confer the right to study the atharva-vedam. That
requires a separate upanayanam involving occult and magical practices.

Under the fulltime guidance of his guru (who may be the priest, father,
elder brother, uncle or other learned individual) the brahmachaari studies
the r'g, yajur and saama vedams. On completion, which might well take
eight to sixteen years, and giving his guru the guru-dakshina, he takes the
ceremonial graduation bath by triple immersion in the sea or flowing
river.

He is then known as a vipra. He is free to perform the samskaaram of
vivaaham (marry a virgin of his varna), and start a family.

(5) "*One would generally, having c**ompleted their education choose a
varana that suits them,"*

My comments:- Absolute rubbish again.

The varna is determined at birth, as per our vedams. There never was a
qjuestion of "choice".

(6) "*Varana vs. Varna: The Difference*

*The word ‘varana’, translates to “a choice-based position in society”. It
is derived from the word ‘Vara’ (choice), similar to Swayamvara, a ceremony
where a princess ‘chooses’ her husband.*"

My comments:- Again, absolute trash. I have set out above the difference
between the two words.

In the expression "svayam-vara", the word "vara" means "husband".

(7) "*The word “caste” is derived from the Portuguese and Spanish word
“casta”, meaning “race” or “breed”. It is synonymous to ‘jaati’*."

My comments:- Absolute nonsense, as usual.

The word "caste" is actually derived from the Latin word "casta", meaning
*CHASTE*, i.e. virgin, refraining from sexual activity and lewd
thoughts, improper association with members of the opposite gender, pure,
clean, vowed to chastity and purity.

"Jaathi" actually is a Sanskrit-derived word denoting birth, such as
jaayathe, jananam, janma nakshathram, jaathagam, "padbyaagum shoodro
ajaayatha", "dvi-jaa" meaning twice-born. We still use the English
classical words "genitor" and "genitress" meaning "father" and "mother".

(8) "*Are there any examples from scriptures of people changing their
varanas or belonging to a different one than that of their parents? **There
are many examples of this from various scriptures. You will find several in
the Vishnu Purana*."

My comments:- As I said earlier, the puraanaas written by fallible humans
and not derived from divine sources, have no authority to over-ride the
vedams.

If our vedams say one varna came from the virad purusha's feet, they can in
no way say that they can climb upwards (like a new-born baby kangaroo
seeking its mother's nipples) and pretend to come from the purusha's
mouth. A crow cannot become a peacock by putting on the peacock's
feathers.

Moreover, the law of gravity works only in one way -- from up to down.
Not the reverse, whatever the non-vedams say.

*As for Raavana, he remained a braahmana, albeit a raakshasa. The two
identities are not mutually exclusive.*

*As for Vidoora, son of rapist illegitimate Vyaasa and royal widow
Ambaalika's servant-maid (whom Ambaalika sent as she did not wished to be
raped again) , he never was a braahmana (nor a vaishya nor a kshathriya),
but remained the same varna as his mother the shoodran sevant-maid of a
royal widow.*

*As for Vishvaamithra, he remained a raajarishi, belonging to the
kshathriya varna.*

Brahmarishi Vashishta refused to countenance Vishvamithra as having

ascended to the varna of braahmanas. He merely commented, when

approached by the latter's disciples, "If so, let it be," meaning,

"*If you wish to so call him, let it be.*"

S Narayanaswamy Iyer

On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 12:19 PM Rajaram Krishnamurthy <
keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sure sir tomorrow i shall K R

On Sun, May 19, 2024, 10:36 PM 'Bala N. Aiyer' via KeralaIyers <
keralaiy...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dear Sri Rajaraman Ji:

The sloka you have quoted "Janmanaa..." from Skanda Purana, I was given to
understand that
it is seen in Manu Smriti - Manu Dharma Sasthra. Can you please confirm if
this is also true,
Since we discuss this sloka often. If this is seen in several places?

Bala N. Aiyer

On Sunday, May 19, 2024 at 10:08:17 PM CDT, Rajaram Krishnamurthy <
keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Varana

The word ‘varna’ is derived from the Sanskrit word ‘vara’, meaning
“choice”. It is always a person’s choice to choose their varana. What is
the basis of this procedure? This is clearly explained in the following
shloka from the SkandaPurana:

जन्मनाजायतेशूद्रःसंस्कारात्द्विजउच्यते।
वेदापठत्भवेत्विप्रःब्रह्मजानातीब्राह्मणः॥

Janmanaajaayateshudrahasamskaaratdvijauchyate।
Vedaapatatbhavetvipraha, Brahma jaanaatibraahmanaha॥

Janmaana– By birth; jaayate– born as; shudraha– the lowest
varana; samskaaraat – through rituals (Upanayana); dvija–twice-born (dve –
two;ja – born);uchyate –declared as; apatat – has read (the Veda); bhavet –
became; Vipra – the educated qualification; jaanaati –
knows;Braahmanaha–the topmost varana;

“By birth one is a Shudra. Through rituals (samskaara), one is considered a
dvija. One who has read the Vedas has become a Vipra and one who knows
Brahman is a Brahmana.”
-SkandaPurana, Khanda (canto) 6 (NagaraKhanda), Chapter 239, Shlokas 31-34

This is the exact procedure a person used to follow in the ancient times –
to get educated and choose any of the varanas. This is also mentioned in
the Atharva Veda (Khanda 11, Sukta 5, Mantra 3).

A child aged around 11-12 years is supposed to go to a Guru and undergo
initiation after which he/she is a dvija (twice-born). This procedure is
called ‘Upanayana’ and following that one is said to be born from the Guru
and the Vedas and is a Brahmachaari. This is the reason why they are
referred to as ‘dvija’, or “twice-born”. The first birth is the physical
one and the second is Upanayana. The student is then expected to practice
the principles of Brahmachaarya to maintain their elevated status and to
remain eligible to practice the Vedas (even after completing education and
becoming a member of the Tri-varanas). After reading the four Vedas and
following them, a student is a Vipra, the preliminary rank before becoming
a Brahmana, Kshatriya or Vaishya. In the scriptures, one would generally
complete education and choose a varana that suits them, at the age of 14-15
years, after their education.

In Srimad Bhagavatam (Canto 11, Chapter 17, Shlokas 10-13), it is
described, that in Satya Yuga (or Krta Yuga), there was only one varana
called ‘Hamsa’. Everyone was a devotee of the Supreme Lord from birth and
was born with wisdom. Hence, all were sincere and there was only dharma in
that age.

A Brahmana is one who knows Brahman. Hence, all were considered equal to
Brahmanas in the Satya Yuga. Later, people who revolted became Kshatriyas,
those who were engaged in farming and trading-related activities became
Vaishyas and those who stopped learning and following the Vedas became
Shudras. The same cycle repeats in every Maha Yuga (one cycle of four
Yugas).

Varana vs. Varna: The Difference

The word ‘varana’, translates to “a choice-based position in society”. It
is derived from the word ‘Vara’ (choice), similar to Swayamvara, a ceremony
where a princess ‘chooses’ her husband.

The word ‘Varna’, can be used as a short-form of the word ‘varana’, as used
in certain scriptures like the Bhagavata Purana. Otherwise, it means
“colour” and has nothing to do with a person’s social class.

The Difference between Jaati and Varana

Nowadays many consider jaati or caste, as a pre-requisite to attain a
certain varana or to study the Vedas. This is incorrect. The word “caste”
is derived from the Portuguese and Spanish word “casta”, meaning “race” or
“breed”. It is synonymous to ‘jaati’, but definitely not to varana.

Jaati is one’s ethnicity or origin. It does not determine their Varana. For
example, in India, there are lawyers from various states. Is it logical to
claim that all lawyers should be only native -speakers and others should
not be allowed to pursue law? Definitely not! Similarly, the modern-day
caste system arose from selfishness, short-sightedness and lack of maturity
of the people belonging to the Tri-Varanas, who turned the Varana system
into caste system, centuries ago.

Now let us try and dispel some of the most common misconceptions
regarding Varanashrama

- Is dvija the birth after death, where a person’s varana changes in
their next birth?

No. This is a prevalent myth regarding the varana system. All are born
Shudras, as mentioned in the shloka from the SkandaPurana. After learning
the Vedas under the tutelage of a Guru, one becomes a Vipra. Then,
depending on their mechanism of following dharma, they are considered to be
members of any of the three varanas, namely – Brahmana, Kshatriya and
Vaishya. Even if an educated person commits a sin, they are downgraded to
the level of a Shudra. (Manu Smriti, Chapter 2, Shlokas 103, 157 and 168;
Chapter 4, Shloka 245)

- Why do certain shlokas say that one must be “born in the Veda” to
pronounce the Vedic texts? For example, Manu Smriti, Chapter 2, Shloka 172
says this.

Just read Manu Smriti, Chapter 2, Shloka 148. It says that “a person’s true
birth is by means of education which is considered imperishable.” As
mentioned above in this article, one must undergo Upanayana to become a
dvija. After that, the Vedas become one of their parents. This concept is
mentioned in Sage Apasthamba’ s Dharma Sutra and was also misinterpreted
by B. R. Ambedkar, in his book, “Who Are the Shudras?”

- Are women also allowed to get educated and attain a certain varana as
per the Vedic rules? Why are women compared to Shudras by several
present-day scholars?

Yes, women are also supposed to have equal opportunities as men. There is
no discrimination on the basis of sex, as per Hinduism and the Vedic rules.
There have been many female scholars like Gargi, Maitreyi, Lopamudra,
Gautami, etc. They also wore the sacred thread, yajnopavitam (यज्ञोपवीतम्),
just like educated men, and also were Brahmachaariṇis. Moreover, the Rg
Veda and Atharva Veda explicitly state that men and women are supposed to
practice Brahmachaarya. (Refer to Rg Veda, Mandala 6, Sukta 44, Mantra 18;
Mandala 10, Sukta 109, Mantra 5; Atharva Veda, Khanda 11, Sukta 5, Mantras
17 and 18)

The trend of comparing women to Shudras started after the onset of the
caste system, to prevent them from receiving education. This was all
actually European influence. It has now become a widespread misconception
regarding the varana system.

- Are there any examples from scriptures of people changing their
varanas or belonging to a different one than that of their parents?

Yes. It is said in the Manu Smriti (Chapter 10, Shloka 65) that “it is
always possible for a Brahmana to become a Shudra or vice versa. The same
is applicable to the Kshatriya and Vaishya”. There are many examples of
this from various scriptures. You will find several in the Vishnu Purana. A
few are given below:

- Prishadha, the son of Prajapati Daksha, although born to a Brahmana,
became a Shudra. He performed tapasya and attained liberation. (Vishnu
Purana, Khanda4, Chapter 1, Shloka 14)
- Nabhaga, the son of a Kshatriya, became a Vaishya. Later,
his own sons became Kshatriyas. (Vishnu Purana, Khanda4, Chapter 1,
Shloka 13)
- Nabhaga’s son, Drishta, became a Brahmana. His son became a Kshatriya.
(Vishnu Purana, Khanda4, Chapter 2, Shloka 2)
- Drishta’s grandchildren became Brahmanas again. (Vishnu Purana,
Khanda9, Chapter 2, Shloka 23)
- Raavana was the grandson of the Rishi Pulatsya, yet he
became a rakshassha.
- Vidura was raised by his mother, a servant. He was educated and became
a Brahmana.

Rishi Vishvamitra was formerly a Kshatriya who became a Brahmana, and
moreover, a Brahmarshi.

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx K Rajaram IRS 19524//20524

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