Hi Josiah > On 2 Sep 2016, at 16:13, Josiah <proge...@assays.tv> wrote: > > Ciao Jeremy & Danielo > > > Part of the issue is that part of the reaction to NoteSelf has actually > > been reaction to seeing browser local storage used for the first time. To > > me, that’s really an irrelevant distraction from what’s cool about NoteSelf. > > I don't think its entirely irrelevant.
Perhaps we can agree that it is at least orthogonal. If all that one wanted was local storage of tiddlers then that could be added much more simply than what you see in NoteSelf. The point of NoteSelf is to bring up the CouchDB interface; it would still be a desirable thing to do, even without the local storage features. > One of the things I like about it is that it saves locally in a uniform > way--in the browsers I have tested so far. As I commented previously having > ONE method, not browser plugin-in dependent, for local save, is, I think, > very useful to see working. > > I do think there are issues with local storage. Which can likely be overcome. Really? The issues with browser local storage seem to me to be pretty fundamental. As I said, it’s brittle and opaque. The user doesn’t have control over the lifetime of the data, they can’t inspect it, and they can’t export it. That lack of control is by design because the mechanism is designed for a different usecase: as a browser-side cache for server applications that will ultimately persist their data at the server. The browser manufacturers have zero interest in using local storage as a persistent, reliable storage locals. Perhaps it’s just me: local storage has been around for perhaps 10 years, so I’ve had plenty of time to absorb the capabilities and limitations. > I'm less concerned about privacy than portability. As I said to Danielo, it’s only when considering using local storage as a default cache that the privacy issues arise. It is indeed all about control. Best wishes Jeremy > > Best wishes > Josiah > > On Friday, 2 September 2016 15:41:59 UTC+2, Jeremy Ruston wrote: > Hi Danielo > >> That's a very daunting conversation. Seems to leave apart all NoteSelf >> features and focuses only on the worst part. > > Not at all! In one of the messages I said that the CouchDB support was > terrific but that I wasn’t a fan of local storage. > >> First of all, it is not saved to local storage, it is persisted on IndexedDB > > I was using “local storage” in lower case to cover all kinds of storage in > the browser. There’s little practical difference for an end user between > IndexedDB and localStorage. > >> Regarding "leaving information behind" >> >> Serious privacy issues with leaving user data locked up the browser without >> their knowledge >> >> NoteSelf it's very clear about where information is stored, and provides >> SEVERAL EASY ways of deleting the information you store on it. Not to >> mention that leaving information on the browser is as insecure as leaving >> them on the filesystem. > > That comment was with respect to a different comment of mine, to the effect > that I could see a role for local storage as a temporary backup in case > saving fails. > >> It's a bit sad that you leave apart all this features: > > But literally all of those features are part of CouchDB, and hence covered by > my approval in the original tweet. > >> and focus on a technology that is not even being used. > > Part of the issue is that part of the reaction to NoteSelf has actually been > reaction to seeing browser local storage used for the first time. To me, > that’s really an irrelevant distraction from what’s cool about NoteSelf. > > Best wishes > > Jeremy. > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TiddlyWiki" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to tiddlywiki+...@ <>googlegroups.com <http://googlegroups.com/>. >> To post to this group, send email to tiddl...@ <>googlegroups.com >> <http://googlegroups.com/>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki >> <https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/74489054-6fe4-41db-9f21-2a038e4c39de%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/74489054-6fe4-41db-9f21-2a038e4c39de%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TiddlyWiki" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com > <mailto:tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki > <https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/ef38dd46-cadd-4f53-914f-0f46fb4fa7e0%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/ef38dd46-cadd-4f53-914f-0f46fb4fa7e0%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/F57A7160-C4ED-4410-A9E6-D0AF5FF6C090%40gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
