Ciao Jeremy I think this is worth hitting on a bit more.
As you likely know I'm more of a standard user than a person with insight into the history of tech. I'm making, perhaps, a very naive point ... but I like the fact that NoteSelf can save locally in different browsers without the user having to install anything additional. Best wishes Josiah On Friday, 2 September 2016 17:22:13 UTC+2, Jeremy Ruston wrote: > > Hi Josiah > > On 2 Sep 2016, at 16:13, Josiah <prog...@assays.tv <javascript:>> wrote: > > Ciao Jeremy & Danielo > > > Part of the issue is that part of the reaction to NoteSelf has actually > been reaction to seeing browser local storage used for the first time. To > me, that’s really an irrelevant distraction from what’s cool about NoteSelf. > > I don't think its entirely irrelevant. > > > Perhaps we can agree that it is at least orthogonal. If all that one > wanted was local storage of tiddlers then that could be added much more > simply than what you see in NoteSelf. The point of NoteSelf is to bring up > the CouchDB interface; it would still be a desirable thing to do, even > without the local storage features. > > One of the things I like about it is that it saves locally in a uniform > way--in the browsers I have tested so far. As I commented previously having > ONE method, not browser plugin-in dependent, for local save, is, I think, > very useful to see working. > > > I do think there are issues with local storage. Which can likely be > overcome. > > > Really? The issues with browser local storage seem to me to be pretty > fundamental. As I said, it’s brittle and opaque. The user doesn’t have > control over the lifetime of the data, they can’t inspect it, and they > can’t export it. That lack of control is by design because the mechanism is > designed for a different usecase: as a browser-side cache for server > applications that will ultimately persist their data at the server. The > browser manufacturers have zero interest in using local storage as a > persistent, reliable storage locals. > > Perhaps it’s just me: local storage has been around for perhaps 10 years, > so I’ve had plenty of time to absorb the capabilities and limitations. > > I'm less concerned about privacy than portability. > > > As I said to Danielo, it’s only when considering using local storage as a > default cache that the privacy issues arise. It is indeed all about control. > > Best wishes > > Jeremy > > > Best wishes > Josiah > > On Friday, 2 September 2016 15:41:59 UTC+2, Jeremy Ruston wrote: >> >> Hi Danielo >> >> That's a very daunting conversation. Seems to leave apart all NoteSelf >> features and focuses only on the worst part. >> >> >> Not at all! In one of the messages I said that the CouchDB support was >> terrific but that I wasn’t a fan of local storage. >> >> First of all, it is not saved to local storage, it is persisted on >> IndexedDB >> >> >> I was using “local storage” in lower case to cover all kinds of storage >> in the browser. There’s little practical difference for an end user between >> IndexedDB and localStorage. >> >> Regarding "leaving information behind" >> >> Serious privacy issues with leaving user data locked up the browser >>> without their knowledge >> >> >> NoteSelf it's very clear about where information is stored, and provides >> SEVERAL EASY ways of deleting the information you store on it. Not to >> mention that leaving information on the browser is as insecure as leaving >> them on the filesystem. >> >> >> That comment was with respect to a different comment of mine, to the >> effect that I could see a role for local storage as a temporary backup in >> case saving fails. >> >> It's a bit sad that you leave apart all this features: >> >> >> But literally all of those features are part of CouchDB, and hence >> covered by my approval in the original tweet. >> >> and focus on a technology that is not even being used. >> >> >> Part of the issue is that part of the reaction to NoteSelf has actually >> been reaction to seeing browser local storage used for the first time. To >> me, that’s really an irrelevant distraction from what’s cool about NoteSelf. >> >> Best wishes >> >> Jeremy. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TiddlyWiki" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/74489054-6fe4-41db-9f21-2a038e4c39de%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/74489054-6fe4-41db-9f21-2a038e4c39de%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TiddlyWiki" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com > <javascript:>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/ef38dd46-cadd-4f53-914f-0f46fb4fa7e0%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/ef38dd46-cadd-4f53-914f-0f46fb4fa7e0%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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