Does anyone know if the underlying tongue of these devices is FORTH? Don Bob Camp > Hi > > And my thanks to all the others who worked on this project as well !!! > > Bob > >> On Aug 9, 2015, at 11:26 AM, D W <watsondani...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> A quick update for everyone. I have successfully gotten a REF-0 to run >> standalone. I am using an AVR, an inexpensive GPS module and very minimal >> circuitry. The 'NO GPS' light is off, and SatStat shows it is locked and >> disciplining to the 1PPS. >> >> The stability of this needs to be assessed for a day or two. But things are >> looking very good. >> >> I plan to write up a complete procedure with code and pictures. I will post >> that here when I am done. >> >> Thanks for all of your help Bob, and to the others that worked on the >> project. >> >> Regards >> >> Dan >> >>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 7:40 PM, Bob Camp <kb...@n1k.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> While the newer Oncore’s are technically backwards compatible >>> with the old units, in practice (as you have noted) that’s not a 100% >>> sort of thing. If you work with a new(er) Oncore, you would pick different >>> strings to use for this sort of thing. In order to have a “drop in” with an >>> Oncore, you do indeed need a part made before (roughly) 2001. >>> >>> That kicks you back to 20 year old technology (the early Oncore silicon >>> came out in the mid 90’s) . A *lot* has happened in Moore’s Law terms since >>> then. >>> A lot has also happened in “aggregate volume” (what ever you want to call >>> volume doubling) terms. Both of those things directly impact GPS receivers. >>> Top that off with SA going away after the early Oncore came out and you >>> have a LOT of changes. >>> >>> Is that all bad? Of course not. It’s what makes me focus more on the REF-0, >>> with >>> a modern GPS than on the REF-1 with an old Oncore. You have the high >>> stability / >>> long loop stuff from the SA era. You have a high speed, high sensitivity >>> GPS to >>> go with it. In many ways, that’s the best of both worlds. >>> >>> ============ >>> >>> Hopefully somebody will pop up and take the gear off of your hands !! >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 1:59 PM, Bill Hawkins <b...@iaxs.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Bob Camp has done a fine job of explaining the recent Lucent hardware. >>>> >>>> I have two of the old pairs with Rb oscillators and poor early Oncore >>>> receivers. >>>> Then I got a new pair with crystals and better GPS. I got the idea to >>>> use a new >>>> crystal unit to pair with an old RB unit, so I did some research on the >>>> messages >>>> required to do that. >>>> >>>> The data was acquired with a Pico Scope set to display the bytes as >>>> ASCII >>>> characters. The displays can be saved as text files, which can be edited >>>> with >>>> explanations of the data. I have no skills with microcomputers, and >>>> after many >>>> years working with computers have no desire to acquire them. >>>> >>>> The messages decoded easily enough with the 1996 Oncore manual. The >>>> problem >>>> with mixing old and new units is that the old Oncore had six channels >>>> while >>>> the new one has eight. The messages don't match. The only difference is >>>> two >>>> more groups of satellite data. >>>> >>>> I have text files (MS Word 2003) with the contents of the messages. >>>> Considering >>>> the low level of interest in this subject, please write to b...@iaxs.net >>>> for >>>> further details. If you'd like to experiment with the hardware, please >>>> make a >>>> reasonable offer for any of it. The new units have been assembled with a >>>> 28 volt >>>> 3 amp supply into a mini-rack using aluminum angle. My time lab is being >>>> downsized due to a move to senior living apartments. There's other >>>> stuff. >>>> >>>> Bill Hawkins >>>> Bloomington, MN 55438 >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob >>>> Camp >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM >>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA >>>> era >>>> (this is one of them) did not use the sawtooth correction information. >>>> The signal >>>> spreading (at the time they were designed) was just to great to make it >>>> worth >>>> playing with. I have no authoritative source for that, but it does sound >>>> reasonable. >>>> >>>> As with any absolute statement, there are sure to be exceptions >>>> .. >>>> >>>> ====== >>>> >>>> For the strings, you need the right status bits in the right locations. >>>> The KS >>>> does not care that it always sees the same sats at the same locations >>>> directly >>>> over its own north pole location. It just wants data in the field. >>>> >>>> It does care about the TRAIM status and probably a few other bits here >>>> and there. >>>> None of them appear to be hard to guess. All of the specs for the Oncore >>>> strings >>>> are something Mr Google knows a lot about. >>>> >>>> If you do try to synthesize *real* strings off something like a uBlox, >>>> remember that >>>> each of these guys had a slightly different idea about when the PPS >>>> fired relative to >>>> things like correction data and the time label on that PPS. Getting the >>>> time label wrong >>>> is pretty easy to fix. I (unfortunately) have more than ample empirical >>>> evidence of >>>> what getting the sawtooth correction off one second does. Its far >>>> harder to track down >>>> when only looking at the outside of the device. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 8:18 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dan exactly my thinking. >>>>> I will guess it wants the string that says I have a 3d position lock. >>>>> Something like @@ and 30-40 characters that would be fixed.I think >>>> there is >>>>> a CRC at the end. But all of the message can be copied from a real >>>> oncore >>>>> or simply monitor what comes out of the KS GPS unit. Hard to say whats >>>>> needed but a good discussion. Be it any number of uProcs they can all >>>>> easily do a fixed string. >>>>> Regards >>>>> Paul >>>>> WB8TSL >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:13 PM, D W <watsondani...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I'm hoping that it just wants a dummy string to say GPS is ok, >>>> and >>>>>> doesn't actually use any information in it. If that's the case, code >>>> can be >>>>>> developed for PIC and AVR that will work for just about anyone, using >>>> a ~$1 >>>>>> chip. >>>>>> >>>>>> Even if the string does need to contain real GPS info, it should >>>> still be >>>>>> quite easy to do. >>>>>> >>>>>> A while back I wrote some code to parse the serial string from a >>>> Jupiter-T >>>>>> and display the information on a 4 line LCD display. It worked very >>>> nicely >>>>>> but I never did anything useful with it. I think I'll take Bob's >>>> notes and >>>>>> incorporate the REF-0. That would make for a very compact setup. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 2:06 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Looking forward to the notes. >>>>>>> Yes it could be fairly simple if what ref 0 wants is a string that >>>>>>> essentially says the system is fixed with 3 d accuracy. Perhaps >>>> after >>>>>> that >>>>>>> the ref 0 makes no checks other then the string keeps coming with >>>> the >>>>>>> correct quality. Not to push a particular proc but any of the low >>>> end >>>>>> ones >>>>>>> will do that stunt very easily. >>>>>>> That would be pretty sweet. >>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>> WB8TSL >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Bob Camp <kb...@n1k.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ok, I will write something up and post it here. It will probably >>>> take a >>>>>>>> few days >>>>>>>> to get it all into a form that answers most of the questions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What you will need: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1) A working REF-0 >>>>>>>> 2) A PIC or other micro to get things going >>>>>>>> 3) A GPS with a PPS output (any will do) >>>>>>>> 4) Code specific to your GPS and the needs of the REF-0 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Since the Oncore needs to be set up each time its booted, there is >>>> no >>>>>> real >>>>>>>> advantage to using one. You still need an MCU in the mix. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> More to follow. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 5:24 AM, Graham <planoph...@aei.ca> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bob, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would like that information too please and thank you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have a pair that is working quite well and I also have a second >>>> REF-0 >>>>>>>> that I want to start testing but just haven't got round to it yet >>>> to >>>>>> figure >>>>>>>> out what is needed. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> cheers, Graham ve3gtc >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 2015-08-07 02:39, Bob Camp wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You need to get the Oncore running with the correct position >>>> locked in >>>>>>>> and spitting out the right strings. >>>>>>>>>> Thats all done by the CPU in the REF-1 unit. The REF-0 simply >>>> grabs >>>>>>>> the data off of the string >>>>>>>>>> as it comes by. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ill see if I can dig out the information and send it to you off >>>> list. >>>>>>>> Its buried around here somewhere. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 6, 2015, at 10:02 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva < >>>>>>>> time-n...@tardis.net.br> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have some Motorola Oncore available. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can you detail this "fairly simple manipulation of the signal >>>> lines"? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Edésio >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 06, 2015 at 09:57:20PM -0400, Bob Camp wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> People got a bit ???excited??? about the level of KS box >>>>>> discussions. >>>>>>>> All of the work decoding >>>>>>>>>>>> the 15 pin connector and how to drive the REF-0 was taken off >>>> list. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Simple answer: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes you can run a REF-0 by it???s self. It needs a dummy string >>>> that >>>>>>>> looks like the output >>>>>>>>>>>> of a Motorola Oncore to feed it and some fairly simple >>>> manipulation >>>>>>>> of the signal lines. >>>>>>>>>>>> It will then quite happily discipline to the pps you feed it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 6, 2015, at 7:27 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva < >>>>>>>> time-n...@tardis.net.br> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Fellows! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Had anyone managed to run the KS-24361 REF-0, the one without >>>> GPS, >>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>>>>> standalone unit? If so, can you provide some links on how to >>>>>>>> configure it? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The reason to try this is cost. The REF-0 unit costs USD 25 + >>>> USD >>>>>>>> 52.30 >>>>>>>>>>>>> (shipping to Brazil) and I have to pay the same amount as >>>> custom >>>>>>>> taxes. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now the REF-0/REF-1 pair would be too expensive. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Edésio >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > >
-- "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." Ghost in the Shell ------------------------------- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
