I suspect that the opposite is far more often the case:  Statistically
significant results due only to the fact that large samples were used
represent lack of clinical significance or meaningful group differences.

Paul
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wallace Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: teaching effect size


> Maybe I was too sloppy in my usage.  But what I *meant* to say still
> applies. The larger the sample, the smaller the effect size that can be
> detected to be statistically significant.  So with extremely large
samples,
> extremely small effect sizes can be detected to be statistically
> significant.  But it is not automatically true that small effect sizes due
> to large samples are not meaningful, they can be very meaningful.  So,
> people may laugh at you if you say "Hey, I accounted for 1% of the
> variance!"  But pragmatically, accounting for 1% of the variance may
benefit
> millions of peoples lives in America alone.
>
> wedj
>
> On 8/16/04 4:38 PM, "Paul Okami" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Small effect sizes in large populations are not the same as statistical
> > significance due to large samples.  This is what I was referring to.
> >
> > Paul Okami
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Wallace Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: teaching effect size
> >
> >
> >> But you have to be careful about this.  As noted by Rosenthal, small
> > effects
> >> sizes in large populations do not mean unimportant.  Effect sizes as
small
> >> as 1% can still translate into an influence on millions of people in
the
> > US,
> >> as was the case in the aspirin study and the decreased rate of second
> > heart
> >> attacks.
> >>
> >> Wally Dixon
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 8/16/04 12:25 PM, "Paul Okami" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I usually give an example of results that are statistically
significant
> >>> because of large samples, but have little meaning in the real world.
In
> >>> other words, they're "real" but "not important."
> >>>
> >>> That makes it easy to talk about a statistic that reflects magnitude
of
> >>> group differences.  It's really very intuitive.  (I don't discuss the
> > math
> >>> involved).
> >>>
> >>> Paul Okami
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Hatcher, Joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:18 PM
> >>> Subject: teaching effect size
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Tipsters,
> >>>>
> >>>> I apologize for the cross-posting.
> >>>>
> >>>> I teach the first semester of our two-semester Research Design and
> >>>> Statistics class, my part of which goes through t-tests and requires
a
> >>>> completed project.  When I first started teaching the course, "effect
> >>> size"
> >>>> wasn't one of the topics covered.  In trying to update the class, I
> > would
> >>>> like to teach this concept, but I'm having some trouble, as it
doesn't
> >>> come
> >>>> as naturally to me as do some of the other topics, and most of the
> >>>> explanations of effect size seem very complicated.
> >>>>         Can someone point me to a method to teach effect size that is
> >>> easily
> >>>> understood by undergraduates?
> >>>>
> >>>> Joe Hatcher
> >>>> Ripon College
> >>>> Ripon, WI
> >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Joe W. Hatcher, Jr., Ph.D.
> >>>> Psychology
> >>>> Ripon College
> >>>> Ripon, WI 54971
> >>>> USA
> >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>
> >>>> ---
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > --
> >> Wallace E. Dixon, Jr.              |
> >> Chair and Associate Professor      |     If children grew up according
to
> >>   of Psychology                    |     early indications, we should
have
> >> Department of Psychology           |     nothing but geniuses.
> >> East Tennessee State University    |       -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
> >> Johnson City, TN 36714             |
> >> (423) 439-6656                     |
>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Wallace E. Dixon, Jr.              |
> Chair and Associate Professor      |     "When I turned two I was really
>   of Psychology                    |     anxious because I'd doubled my
> Department of Psychology           |     age in a year."
> East Tennessee State University    |       -Steven Wright
> Johnson City, TN 36714             |
> (423) 439-6656                     |
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