I'm thinking that the dark ages weren't so dark and science is a natural outgrowth of thoughtful Christian theology. So, without the dark ages and Christian theology, science wouldn't be anywhere.
--Mike On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Jim Dougan <jdou...@iwu.edu> wrote: > I sometimes engage in a speculative exercise with my students - imagining > what might have happened had the Dark Ages not intervened between the "Greek > Miracle" and the Renaissance (of course, it wouldn't have really been a > rebirth). Seriously - where would science and technology be today had > progress been more continuous? I am thinking Star Trek.... > > ;) > > > At 04:25 PM 9/15/2010, you wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> Marc Carter wrote: >>> >>> Those old guys were *smart*... >>> >>> >> >> If ever you hear of a concentration of philosophical, scientific, and >> artistic talent like there was in Athens between, say, 450 and 350 bc (a >> city of about 100,000 back then) move there and start drinking the water, >> breathing the air, and eating food grown from the surrounding ground. >> Something pretty astonishing was happening back then. (And when you consider >> that geniuses like Aristarchus and Archimedes came a century later during >> the Hellenistic "decline"... ) >> >> Chris >> -- >> >> Christopher D. Green >> Department of Psychology >> York University >> Toronto, ON M3J 1P3 >> Canada >> >> >> >> 416-736-2100 ex. 66164 >> <mailto:chri...@yorku.ca>chri...@yorku.ca >> http://www.yorku.ca/christo/ >> >> ========================== >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Christopher D. Green >>>> [<mailto:chri...@yorku.ca>mailto:chri...@yorku.ca] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 2:49 PM >>>> To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) >>>> Subject: Re: [tips] Galileo Was Wrong? >>>> >>>> Just for the record, Aristarchus of Samos outlined a >>>> heliocentric model of the universe 1700 years before Copernicus. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Christopher D. Green >>>> Department of Psychology >>>> York University >>>> Toronto, ON M3J 1P3 >>>> Canada >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 416-736-2100 ex. 66164 >>>> <mailto:chri...@yorku.ca>chri...@yorku.ca >>>> http://www.yorku.ca/christo/ >>>> >>>> ========================== >>>> >>>> >>>> ========= >>>> >>>> Marc Carter wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Good points, John. >>>>> >>>>> It was really Copernicus who gave us the notion that you >>>>> >>>> >>>> could better explain the motions of the planets; it was >>>> Kepler who worked out elliptical orbits (but hated them -- >>>> circular motion required no explanation, but ellipses do), >>>> and Newton who invented gravity to explain the elliptical orbits. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Galileo gave observational evidence that there were more >>>>> >>>> >>>> than "seven heavenly bodies" in his observations of the >>>> satellites of Jupiter. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> He gets the "blame" because he was the one who provided >>>>> >>>> >>>> evidence for the notion that things weren't as the Ptolemaic >>>> system would have it. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Marc Carter, PhD >>>>> Associate Professor and Chair >>>>> Department of Psychology >>>>> College of Arts & Sciences >>>>> Baker University >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: John Kulig >>>>>> [<mailto:ku...@mail.plymouth.edu>mailto:ku...@mail.plymouth.edu] >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 6:44 PM >>>>>> To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) >>>>>> Subject: Re: [tips] Galileo Was Wrong? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, I agree! (sort of, but ...) My understanding >>>>>> >>>> >>>> (haven't read the >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> original) is that Copernicus (Latinized from the Polish name >>>>>> Kopernik) was theoretically embedded in the medieval way >>>>>> >>>> >>>> of thinking >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> which was to try to fit the available data into pre-existing >>>>>> medieval-style thinking. I believe he showed that either a geo or >>>>>> helio-centered universe could be made consistent with >>>>>> >>>> >>>> existing data. >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Galileo deserves a tremendous amount of credit for pushing science >>>>>> forward, but look to Kepler's three laws of planetary motion >>>>>> (1609/1619) for a real data-driven science (Tycho Brahe's data >>>>>> though), moving from the perfect circles of medieval thinking to >>>>>> elliptical orbits. But in empirically derived laws, he saw a >>>>>> different sort of perfection, mathematically, such as the >>>>>> relationship between distance from the sun and time to >>>>>> >>>> >>>> orbit (3rd law >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I believe) ... >>>>>> >>>>>> ========================== >>>>>> John W. Kulig >>>>>> Professor of Psychology >>>>>> Plymouth State University >>>>>> Plymouth NH 03264 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> ==================================================================== >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> GALILEO GALILEI: >>>>>> I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who >>>>>> >>>> >>>> has endowed >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> us with sense, reasons, and intellect has intended us to >>>>>> >>>> >>>> forgo their >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> use. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> ==================================================================== >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The information contained in this e-mail and any >>>>> >>>> >>>> attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by Baker University >>>> ("BU") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of >>>> only the individual or entity named above. The information >>>> may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures >>>> acts or other legal rules. 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