> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Fowler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 1:49 AM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things
> to ever happen to mankind
>
> Hello, it seems I have missed a good conversation! Now for my two
> pence/cents:
>
> > 4. EL encourages sloppy syntax. It doesnât even have data types
> > (well it has on the bottom level, but not on the surface).
> > Remember JavaScript? Did you know that at first, it was
> supposed
> > to be server-side scripting language? You know the reason it
> > didnât make it (one of the major ones)? Because of its sloppy
> > syntax and the amount of errors it caused. Why bring it back?
>
> I agree that <% code %> is clearer, especially for debugging but I think
> that using <% %> excessively leads to poor page design.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I think HAVING poor
designs leads to poor design. Using <% %> might make it look ugly, but it won't
affect the design itself (I am not speaking of graphical design here, I am speaking of
program design)
> Embedding Java
> code directly into a presentation page leans towards placing business
> logic in the presentation tier, which is BAD design.
Isn't that EXACTLY what c:foreach and c:if tags encourage? Having logic
inside presentation? Embedding java code doesn't necessarily mean logic. <% for (
Iterator I = collection.iterator(); i.hasNext(); ) { %>
Do stuff
<% } %>
Seems much better than:
<c:set var="myCollection" value="<%=collectionFromCode%>"/>
<c:for item="${myCollection}" test="<%=somecmplicated test here%>">
Do stuff
<c:for>
Again, it's not what u use (JSTL or java) that makes a bad design, itâs a bad
designer that makes a bad design.
> If you have to
> process your data objects on the presentation page you have a problem.
> It is better to construct a "bean" that contains all the information
> required for the page, embed it in the session when you serve the JSP
> and just pull data out of the bean. Need to loop? Use iterators in the
> bean. Need to construct a new object in the page? Why? This is
> presentation!
>
>
> >Customer isn't worth the trouble? Maybe that theory of thought is the
> >reason why you're using Japanese mail server?
>
> > Good luck with your developers. Can I have the name of your
> >company
> plz? I'll make sure never to buy anything from it
>
> No need to get personal, this is a debate not a slagging match.
>
>
> -Mike Fowler
> "I could be a genius if I just put my mind to it, and I,
> I could do anything, if only I could get 'round to it"
>
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