A collection of "java designer"'s newsgroup posts can be found here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?[EMAIL PROTECTED]&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&; btnG=Google+Search&site=groups Looks like s/he can be nice to people when in good mood. Surprisingly, none of his posts is Java related. --V. ----- Original Message ----- From: "java programmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jan Labanowski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:56 PM Subject: Re: Tomcat 3.3, server.xml and a lot of fun > --- Jan Labanowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You must be working for Microsoft, I assume... > > BTW... servlet.xml cannot have DTD, since people can > > add their own stuff > > (classes), instantiate it in server.xml, and name it > > the way they want, > > and DTD would not allow it... > > > > Jan > > Please don't top post. Replies go under the > original post. Only MS weenies with MS outlook > top post. > > Ok. I am going to rant here. > > <rant> > Tomcat 3.3.x's internals really suck. I have looked > at probably all of the JDK source over the past > 5 years and tomcat is at the very bottom in terms > of quality, readability, even trivialities like > source code formatting/comments. > > JSP/Servlets are *important*. They are probably the > most important java api, now that java has proven > to be a total failure on the client side. (java, in > general, is *great* though). > > Now, it wouldn't be so bad that tomcat is a internal > mess, if the exposed API/interface was pleasant. > By this I mean, installing, configuring, extending, > and documentation. Tomcat falls down in all areas. > > I mean, I really am very frustrated. There should be > no reason to be. > > Let's take a simple, yet real world example of 2 > virtual hosts, each served by Tomcat. > > Well, do I use: > > a) 1 tomcat instance with 1 server.xml file with > different AutoWebApps ? (have you seen how > terse the autowebapp doc is ? They don't even > say if the host name param should be a FQDN) ? > > b) 2 separate instances of tomcat with 2 separate > server.xml files ? > > c) Some other random, trial by fire combo ? > > I mean, in places, the docs say that version 3.3 > and earler require separate instances of Tomcat. > Other places, they say things like: "You can add > apps to multiple virtual hosts." (implying 1 > tomcat server ?). > > I don't know. The JSPException that I described in > the original post, is not really documented > anywhere. Tomcat should have printed a meaningful > message when that happened. Just barfing up the > Exception itself, doesn't help me, i.e., the end > user at all. > > There isn't any real documentation, and whatever > there is, is mutually incompatible in many places. > > Is this the best Sun/Apache can do ? > > And on a personal note: I think the whole "webapp" > idea is silly. It sounds promising of course, but > it complicates things for most people. If I am > running a web site, run with jsp's, then I want: > > apache (httpd) > | > |_some doc root > | > |__ all .html, .jsp files, images here. > > And only one context ("/"). > > In addition, path or extension based mappings > _are_ useful but should be the _sole_ domain of > the web server. That would be Apache in my case. > > That's how ASP works, that's how LiveWire used > to work. I don't want my images, files etc., all > over the place. I want them all under the htdocs > directory. (yeah, I know I can do it, but I want > that to be the default out of box tomcat behavior). > > "webapps" should never have made it > into the spec. Name three well known > web sites running in a mass virtual hosted > environment and deployed as "webapps" with > a web.xml file to boot ! Hell, name *any*. > > And the kicker is the gratuitous, idiotic > use of XML for _configuration_. For you to say: > > > servlet.xml cannot have DTD, since people can > > add their own stuff > > (classes), instantiate it in server.xml, and name it > > the way they want, > > shows that you have no conceptual idea what xml is > intended for. > > Java: > class foo { > //variables (structure) > } > > C: > struct { > //variables (structure) > } > > Database: > create table [ .. columns/structure ..] > > BNF: > syntax ::= { rule } > rule ::= identifier "::=" expression > expression ::= term { "|" term } > term ::= factor { factor } > [..] > > XML is similar to the above 4. XML is a way to > *define*/*create* new and arbitrary data > formats (although somewhat limited compared > to BNF type grammars). This way, I know and > you know what we are saying when we exhange data. > > If there is _no_ format (dtd), there _is_ no > structure. That's a shoddy development time > hack only. Tomcat has been deployed for years > now. There is no excuse not to have a server.dtd. > > Here's a factoid for the sun team: If I > had the money, I would buy ServletExec or maybe > JRun. I have been hacking java since '94 and > I am frustrated with how inelegant 3.3 "feels". > > The Sun/Apache team can learn a great > deal either of those 2 distros. (I am not talking > about fancy installers or GUI's but about > documentation and error handling behavior). > > The httpd Apache server, has a different heritage > of course, but configuring a complicate beast > like that is *easier* than configuring Tomcat itself. > It took me less than 3 hours to download apache, > compile, install and get 4 virtual hosts up and > running on my linux box. I have been struggling > with Tomcat all of today and still haven't gotten > anywhere. Apache uses ONE normal config file > called 'httpd.conf'. Compare this to tomcat's > pandora's box of XML crap. > </rant> > > Best regards, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > -- > To unsubscribe: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Troubles with the list: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > -- To unsubscribe: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Troubles with the list: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
