In contests I call a lot of guys barefoot first and kick on the amp as needed. Problem is usually a guy running full power can be heard out here but has an S-8 noise level and can't hear 100W..Yes you can work a lot of DX with low power, but as an ex-QRP club member I learned life if too short, 9 to go for DXCC on 160 and sweating it. 5U and TU can't hear me thru the pile up but I'll bet they can copy if there was nobody else on. Tried JT65 and it seems CW work also work when it works.Bottom line is you typically need power on the low bands to overcome the other guys noise. Rick N6PE====================================================================== There are more planes in the ocean than submarines in the sky
From: "topband-requ...@contesting.com" <topband-requ...@contesting.com> To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 9:11 AM Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 171, Issue 17 Send Topband mailing list submissions to topband@contesting.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to topband-requ...@contesting.com You can reach the person managing the list at topband-ow...@contesting.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Digital modes on TB and power required (Jim Jim) 2. Re: Digital modes on TB and power required (wb6r...@mac.com) 3. Re: Digital modes on TB and power required (HAROLD SMITH JR) 4. Re: Digital modes on TB and power required (Mike Waters) 5. Re: JT65 Power and bandwidth (Rob Atkinson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 21:14:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Jim <wa3...@comcast.net> To: List-Topband <topband@contesting.com> Subject: Topband: Digital modes on TB and power required Message-ID: <1176951029.186017.1489972452...@connect.xfinity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Guys, First of all in many cases the reason we need really high power on any mode is because other hams on the band are using it and they cover us up... so it is mine is bigger than yours. Now to be fair that is not always the case I know but it happens far too much. Since we are in the years of the bottom of the solar cycle we actually may need more power. Also you can not compare doing meteor scatter or EME work with HF work. There you absolutely need power unless you have stacked 18 element beams or something. But I have seen very very few instances when 50 watts wont get the job done EVEN on 160M. and NO I don't run my RX with a wide open front end I have an IC 7300 and I trim my RX and TX filters to a reasonable width based on the mode I am running. Common sense (and good engineering principals) teach you if you cut the RX bandwidth the signal goes up in strength. You have only to try that with CW to learn that. and for those of you that don't understand the princip al of RX front end overload try having a neighbor 4 miles away as the crow files who is trying to call the same DX you are wanting to work he can be half a kHz away and still give you problems even with a good RX. Now you guys with the really big antennas can mitigate some of this but us little pistols have only once choice ... wait until you neighbor is done. And to be neighborly both my neighbor and I do just that. Something to also consider when you run any digital mode even RTTY and you do it through a sound card you should not be drawing ANY.. not even a little ALC and if you do you not only will make it hard for others to copy you but you could easily cause all kinds of splatter on the band, you have only to listen to some to the signal on 40 and 20 meters to see this. I am not saying any of this to flame or inflame anyone it is simply the way it is. High power is RARELY necessary on the lower bands. Doubt me? Set your transceiver up on WSPR and set it to 20w and find out. When TB was open I was heard all over the world with that power .. and yes even VK. If all of this is not convincing then follow the FCC rules .. use only the power necessary to do that job Oh by the way many of these digital modes are high duty cycle and could do damage to your transceiver. Jim On the higher bands, low power generally gets the job done. But digital folks on 160 need to rethink a few things. Ideally, we should ALL just bump our output up to 100 watts. But that's just not gonna happen. ? I don't have the time right now to add more, but I hope this thread nets some useful suggestions to minimize QRN in the 160m digital portion. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com http://www.w0btu.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 18:42:18 -0700 From: wb6r...@mac.com To: Top Band List List <topband@contesting.com> Subject: Re: Topband: Digital modes on TB and power required Message-ID: <c9e69442-3141-4a38-a05c-2bd29e827...@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Try that on 160 from the left coast to EU and AF and you might get very a different perspective. 73 - Steve WB6RSE On Mar 19, 2017, at 6:14 PM, Jim Jim <wa3...@comcast.net> wrote: But I have seen very very few instances when 50 watts wont get the job done EVEN on 160M. High power is RARELY necessary on the lower bands. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:31:32 +0000 (UTC) From: HAROLD SMITH JR <w0ri...@sbcglobal.net> To: "wb6r...@mac.com" <wb6r...@mac.com>, Top Band List List <topband@contesting.com> Subject: Re: Topband: Digital modes on TB and power required Message-ID: <2090077556.3483773.1489977092...@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Try that from the mid-west and you will have to wait, wait and wait and then wait some more.Been there, done that...................................................................................................................................................... Try that on 160 from the left coast to EU and AF and you might get very a different perspective. 73 - Steve WB6RSE On Mar 19, 2017, at 6:14 PM, Jim Jim <wa3...@comcast.net> wrote: But I have seen very very few instances when 50 watts wont get the job done EVEN on 160M. High power is RARELY necessary on the lower bands. _________________ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 22:13:50 -0500 From: Mike Waters <mikew...@gmail.com> To: topband <topband@contesting.com> Subject: Re: Topband: Digital modes on TB and power required Message-ID: <CA+FxYXhTu4z1Njc9DnkcJUSfwfbA=tjoyjmszret1xtx5os...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 8:42 PM, <wb6r...@mac.com> wrote: > Try that on 160 from the left coast to EU and AF and you might get very a > different perspective. > > 73 - Steve WB6RSE > On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 9:31 PM, HAROLD SMITH JR <w0ri...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Try that from the mid-west and you will have to wait, wait and wait and > then wait some more. Been there, done that................................ > Well said, Steve and Harold! That's usually true even if you have a super station. Maybe Jim has a better antenna system? Or a better location? We're all ears, maybe we'll learn something new. 73. Mike www.w0btu.com > On Mar 19, 2017, at 6:14 PM, Jim Jim <wa3...@comcast.net> wrote: > > But I have seen very very few instances when 50 watts wont get the job > done EVEN on 160M. > > High power is RARELY necessary on the lower bands. > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 08:57:12 -0500 From: Rob Atkinson <ranchoro...@gmail.com> To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: JT65 Power and bandwidth Message-ID: <CALWD7Z5=oao7vczsmuewgj7j0npxq8tzidzuzmy1rsfhbs2...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >FCC regs say you should use the minimum power necessary to establish >communications. Um, no. Here's what it actually says: ?97.313 Transmitter power standards. (a) An amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications. Your "desired communications" are not my "desired communications." I desire solid armchair copy. On 160 that usually means QRO. 73 Rob K5UJ ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Topband mailing list Topband@contesting.com http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband ------------------------------ End of Topband Digest, Vol 171, Issue 17 **************************************** _________________ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband