Yes, agree. The actual meaning of OWL cardinality restrictions (given the Open World and Non Unique Name assumptions) and what would happen once you have data is yet another topic.
I intentionally did not say anything about this because I think I already said in the past something like “it does not really mean what you expect it does + you would need a DL reasoner which are not commercially available + you will likely to be surprised by results, anyhow -> use SHACL instead”. I did not want to continue to sound like a broken record :) > On Mar 25, 2020, at 11:03 AM, Michael DeBellis <mdebelli...@gmail.com> wrote: > > "Also, in OWL, constraints are constraints on classification, not constraints > on specifying values of properties. It is often precisely the people who are > slow in starting with SHACL that are not fully aware of this. " > > I just want to say how strongly I agree with what Jan said. I've used OWL > much more than SHACL and until recently I was one of those people who was > "slow in starting with SHACL" and didn't really understand why it was so > essential to use SHACL rather than OWL to express sata integrity constraints. > It was only when I started using knowledge graphs and OWL on a really large > scale project that I saw why SHACL makes so much more sense for such > constraints. As Jan pointed out for one thing OWL has the Open World > Assumption (OWA) so some constraints such as "ssnNumber must have a value" > are impossible to even define in OWL. But perhaps even more important is that > if an OWL reasoner finds a contradiction (e.g., a data property is typed for > xsd:integer and has a literal value) that is a contradiction and the reasoner > is useless until that contradiction is resolved. For very large data this is > a big problem because it is almost inevitable that some of your data is going > to violate some of your constraints and you don't want to have the reasoner > be useless until every contradiction is resolved. You need something like > SHACL that reports on the violations rather than a reasoner which creates an > inconsistent (and hence useless for reasoning) ontology. > > Michael > > On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 7:01 AM Jan Voskuil <jan.vosk...@taxonic.com > <mailto:jan.vosk...@taxonic.com>> wrote: > Also, in OWL, constraints are constraints on classification, not constraints > on specifying values of properties. It is often precisely the people who are > slow in starting with SHACL that are not fully aware of this. > > > > Even with simple cardinality specified to exactly 1, a resource can have none > or many values for the property. It just falls outside the definition of the > class. Violations are not violations of a constraint, but contradictions > between two or more propositions, neither of which is contested. Therefore, > in standards that intend to express data constraints, SHACL should be used > and not OWL. -j > > > > From: topbraid-users@googlegroups.com > <mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> <topbraid-users@googlegroups.com > <mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Irene Polikoff > Sent: 25 March 2020 14:41 > To: topbraid-users@googlegroups.com <mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> > Subject: Re: [topbraid-users] question on restriction > > > > Can you use cardinality instead of qualified cardinality? Depends on what you > want to say. > > > > Qualified cardinality 1, as you probably know, means that exactly 1 value has > to be decimal, other values can be of another data type. While simple > cardinality says that the total number of values, irrespective of what kind, > has to be 1. > > > > > On Mar 25, 2020, at 4:21 AM, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid Suite Users > <topbraid-users@googlegroups.com <mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com>> > wrote: > > > > I know, the question was specifically for OWL. > > Some of the involved parties have tools that do not support SHACL. > > > > We cannot force them (now) to SHACL-only mode. > > > > Can I do: > > bs:QuantityValue > > rdf:type owl:Class ; > > rdfs:subClassOf owl:Thing ; > > rdfs:subClassOf [ > > rdf:type owl:Restriction ; > > owl:allValuesFrom xsd:decimal ; > > owl:onProperty rdf:value ; > > ] ; > > rdfs:subClassOf [ > > rdf:type owl:Restriction ; > > owl:cardinality "1"^^xsd:nonNegativeInteger ; > > owl:onProperty rdf:value ; > > ] ; > > skos:prefLabel "kwantiteitwaarde"@nl ; > > skos:prefLabel "quantity value"@en ; > > . > > > > With same effect? > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms > Senior Data Scientist > > > > T +31888663107 > M +31630381220 > E michel.bo...@tno.nl <mailto:michel.bo...@tno.nl> > Location > <https://www.google.com/maps/place/TNO+-+Locatie+Delft+-+Stieltjesweg/@52.000788,4.3745183,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x47c5b58c52869997:0x56681566be3b8c88!8m2!3d52.000788!4d4.376707> > > > > <image001.gif> <http://www.tno.nl/> > This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are > not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are > requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no > liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it > and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the > electronic transmission of messages. > > > > > > > > > > Van: topbraid-users@googlegroups.com <mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> > <topbraid-users@googlegroups.com <mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com>> > Namens Holger Knublauch > Verzonden: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 8:47 AM > Aan: topbraid-users@googlegroups.com <mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> > Onderwerp: Re: [topbraid-users] question on restriction > > > > Hi Michel, > > we have (long) moved away from OWL 2 and suggest to use SHACL for these use > cases. The example with rdf:value looks like sh:minCount 1; sh:maxCount 1; > sh:datatype xsd:decimal. > > Holger > > > > On 25/03/2020 17:25, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid Suite Users wrote: > > Ahhhh, ok! > > > > The next question would than be: why is that? > > Isn’t the example a valid case? > > > > In the primer I see only qualifiedCardinality examples with > “onClass”.....maybe this simply should not work for qualified datatype > properties? > > > > Any other way to say that my class has exactly one attribute with type > xsd:decimal? > > Like normal cardinality + some or all valuesfrom? > > > > Thx a lot, > > Michel > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms > Senior Data Scientist > > > > > T +31888663107 > M +31630381220 > E michel.bo...@tno.nl <mailto:michel.bo...@tno.nl> > Location > <https://www.google.com/maps/place/TNO+-+Locatie+Delft+-+Stieltjesweg/@52.000788,4.3745183,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x47c5b58c52869997:0x56681566be3b8c88!8m2!3d52.000788!4d4.376707> > > > > <image001.gif> <http://www.tno.nl/> > This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are > not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are > requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no > liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it > and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the > electronic transmission of messages. > > > > > > > > > > Van: topbraid-users@googlegroups.com <mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> > <topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> <mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> > Namens Holger Knublauch > Verzonden: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:09 PM > Aan: topbraid-users@googlegroups.com <mailto:topbraid-users@googlegroups.com> > Onderwerp: Re: [topbraid-users] question on restriction > > > > This OWL 2 feature is only superficially supported by TopBraid and will not > be supported in the future. > > Holger > > > > On 25/03/2020 05:07, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid Suite Users wrote: > > bs:QuantityValue > > rdf:type owl:Class ; > > rdfs:subClassOf owl:Thing ; > > rdfs:subClassOf [ > > rdf:type owl:Restriction ; > > owl:onClass xsd:decimal ; > > owl:onProperty rdf:value ; > > owl:qualifiedCardinality "1"^^xsd:nonNegativeInteger ; > > ] ; > > skos:prefLabel "kwantiteitwaarde"@nl ; > > skos:prefLabel "quantity value"@en ; > > . > > > > Someone said: red should be owl:onDatatype but when I do that I get error > missing class: > > <image002.png> > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms > Senior Data Scientist > > > > > > T +31888663107 > M +31630381220 > E michel.bo...@tno.nl <mailto:michel.bo...@tno.nl> > Location > <https://www.google.com/maps/place/TNO+-+Locatie+Delft+-+Stieltjesweg/@52.000788,4.3745183,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x47c5b58c52869997:0x56681566be3b8c88!8m2!3d52.000788!4d4.376707> > > > > <image001.gif> <http://www.tno.nl/> > This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are > not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are > requested to inform the sender and delete the message. 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