I agree personaly with much of what you said, but a couple of things disturb me......
I believe that we are saved by grace BEFORE- not after we "do all we can do.."
I believe that we are obligated to follow God's "conditions" (laws) if we are to find ourselves worshipping around the throne in heaven someday. Not that it will save us, but that God simply cannot have some people "pick-pocketing" others in heaven while they are not looking, being to enraptured with God's presence. God would have to have a police force and a criminal justice system to deal with this(!), and the bible clearly showes the world's final judgment at the return of Christ. Things will of prophetic necessity have to be sinless in heaven. I think that God's people should try to become(through Jesus' grace and strength) sinless here on earth as well(not that it won't be difficult).
Also, you use the phrase "return to heaven" - ! Do you (as a mormon) believe that we (our personal spirits) were all in heaven at one point in the past? The bible cleary shows that we are made of the dust of the earth (Gen. 2:7). It also shows that we (our soul) are put together of two (equal????) parts- the dust as one, and the spirit, or breath of life, as the other..... Just because our spirits came from above, it does not mean that they were not created for us the moment our physical bodies were conceived. God, as the creator, obviously did create our spirit at some point, or do you believe that we always existed??
-Peter
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Crucial Doctrines Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 00:01:28 -0800ShieldsFamily wrote: > Would God allow a person who willfully and knowingly disobeyed His > laws > eternal life???? > IS IT POSSIBLE THAT COMMANDMENT-KEEPING, WHILE NOT BEING THE > THING(JESUS) > THAT SAVES A MAN, CAN STILL BE A REQUIRMENT FOR ETERNAL LIFE AND > > SALVATION??????? > > -PETER > > Oooh, what a juicy question! What will Jesus say when He > returns? Matthew 7 > 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; (1) DEPART > FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' Who can answer this??? Izzy > DAVEH: I've explained it before as I believe, but few (none?) seemed to agree. Think of man's efforts to go to the moon. Men have wondered how to do it for ages, but until Uncle Sam (the USA taxpayers and NASA) built a rocket capable of the feat, it was impossible for any of us to bridge that gap. Even with the rocket sitting on the launch pad however, it was not simply a matter of getting in a compartment like an elevator. It took a certain amount of effort for the astronauts to prepare for the journey, learn the procedures and endure the launch. By the 'grace' of the taxpayers, Uncle Sam made it all possible, but the journey still required a certain amount of effort by those who were willing to endure the journey to the end. I have pointed out a number of things that I believe are required for salvation. Faith, repentance are two that most Protestants agree with. Baptism is another, that (IMO) Jesus referred to in Jn 3:5 and is evidenced by the fact that some early Christians practiced baptism for the dead (1Cor 15:29). And of course, I would think our Lord's admonishment that those who endure to the end shall be saved (Mt 24:13) implies there is more than a simple faith required. As I think Blaine mentioned awhile back, we are saved by the grace of God after all we can do. Can we really simply ride the coattails of our Savior into heaven? Will he allow "LAWLESSNESS" to sit on those coattails? As a covenant people, the Lord has promised salvation to those who observe their end of the covenant. Does anybody really think the Lord is obligated to save those who don't observe his laws? Why should he keep his part of a covenant when those who he covenanted with fail to keep their obligations? The Lord has provided the means by which those who accept him can be saved by returning to our Heavenly Father. By his grace, it is now possible for all who love and obey (Jn 14:15) him to someday enter heaven. If it weren't for Jesus' atoning sacrifice, that (returning to heaven) would simply not be possible. Even with his redeeming act, those who refuse to fully accept his terms are going to find themselves excluded. The path to heaven is narrow, and the gate strait.......And, not every one who claims to be Christian will find himself in heaven----just those who doeth the will of God. (Mt 7:21) -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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