Dear Perry,
I agree with you that by accepting Jesus we throw ourselves to the mercy of the court. I agree that these kinds of gifts ( grace, salvation, lose, etc..) CANNOT BE EARNED. But I still believe that keeping God's law is required for salvation...- God is the BOSS and if you want to work for Him, you will have to FOLLOW HIS COMPANY POLICY!
Also, I do want to make a differentiation (is that a word?) here between commandment-keeping and works of law- THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING. The Torah tells us to remember the stranger, widow, fatherless, etc. in the land. It does not command us to do anything specific in this regard, just to be mindful of them and to help them where possible. The offering up of freewill offerings to God is a WORK OF THE LAW. This work is HOLY, JUST, and GOOD. However, it is not REQUIRED for being Torah observant. Other offerings for sin, and daily sacrifices and all were required to be made continually (but of course that is our Savior's job and business today). The command to "do no murder!" was a command. It did not, however make anyone more righteous in regard to law observance if, for instance, a man refrained from going out and murdering somebody that day. He was obviously in the wrong, however, if he did kill someone that day. There was a difference between the two things, however. One was a command, the other was a prescribed "work of law" (the freewill offering).
Does it make you anymore righteous to abide in either? NO!
Is it it good to give freewill offerings and not hate your brother? Yes.
Is it not even commanded now by Jesus to love your enemies?
It would be great to have your thoughts on this DaveH, or anyone who feels inclined to respond.
-Peter Peterson
From: "Charles Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Crucial Doctrines
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 07:03:11 +0000
Peter, et al,
If we all are required to keep the commandments, then no one is saved:
Rom 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." This includes me, and you, and every human that has ever lived. Otherwise, there would be no need for a savior. We would be judged "by the law" because we lived "by the law".
Think of it this way. God shows mercy and bestows grace on those who believe. Showing mercy is not delivering a punishment that one deserves. (Think of one throwing oneself at the mercy of the court. They are asking the court for a lesser punishment than they deserve!) The mercy shown us by God is that we are saved from the penalty of our sins (and the wages of sin is death!).
Grace is bestowing a gift that is not deserved. The grace we are given by God is eternal life. Mercy and grace are free gifts, given to those who believe. Gifts cannot be earned. To take any credit for either our salvation or our eternal life would be to reject the free gifts of God, and thus nullify the sacrifice of his son.
Even after we are saved, we are still sinners. While are "position" relative to Christ has changed in that we have been removed from the penalty of sin, we still are under the power and in the presence of sin. However, because of our understanding of the mercy and grace of God, we seek to obey the commandments of God. This means we do not deliberately sin, but when we do inadvertently sin, we ask for forgiveness and he is faithful to forgive us.
Perry
----Original Message Follows----
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Crucial Doctrines
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:58:28 -0600
Dear Perry, Marlin and all,
Sorry that I haven't been able to write for a while- I have been SO
BUSY!!! I had not checked my inbox enough, and the hotmail account got
full, and must have started sending back mail. I re-joined, however,
and
now I believe that I am beginning to recieve all posts.
I believe that keeping God's commands are not what saves you.
However,
does that necessarily mean that they are not required for salvation?
>From
what we know about God, we know that He has certain codes for living by.
Apparently, the Adversary sinned when he stopped living by these
laws(written or not at the time). His heart became lifted up with
pride.
He was cast out from heaven to earth. What was the condition that
caused
him not to be able to be with God???? PRIDE!
Would God allow a person who willfully and knowingly disobeyed His
laws
eternal life????
IS IT POSSIBLE THAT COMMANDMENT-KEEPING, WHILE NOT BEING THE
THING(JESUS)
THAT SAVES A MAN, CAN STILL BE A REQUIRMENT FOR ETERNAL LIFE AND
SALVATION???????
-PETER
Oooh, what a juicy question! What will Jesus say when He returns?
Matthew 7
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; (1
<http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=MATT+7:23&language=eng
lish&version=NASB&showfn=on&showxref=on#crossref_252648311_1#crossref_25
2648311_1> ) DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' Who can
answer this??? Izzy
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