From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Judy wrote: > If those in street ministry are unable to perform the Ministry of Jesus then they are out there on their own; > we need to wait as He did, until we receive power from on high to meet the needs of the people.
Hi Judy. There is certainly a truth about waiting on the Lord and trusting in Him and receiving power from on high before we go and minister unto others. Before I ever preached on the streets, I fasted 40 days as Jesus did. I would say that this qualifies as waiting on the Lord prior to ministry. Yes, I have experienced casting out devils and healing the sick. jt: I don't want you to think I'm judging anyone personally who is on this list or what you are doing but I do have a lot of questions. I don't see these ministries operating in most Churches - that is deliverance and healing which is the children's bread. David: Sometimes I have had them run up to me like they did Jesus and ask me to deliver them from demons. But what I sense from you is that you have not yet entered into this kind of kingdom experience, yet you comment upon it rather authoritatively, using the Bible and your knowledge of Scripture to make your comments. jt: I've been involved in some deliverance and yes, I have layed hands on the sick but nothing like I would like to see and I have my own issues so I hope it doesn't sound like I am saying that I've arrived or anything like that. Jesus said: "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." (John 7:17 KJV) Much will make more sense when you DO HIS WILL in all these things. When you become complete and whole in doing his will, the rest just falls right into place. jt: So far as I'm aware I've been doing what He has shown me and I have no problem with doctrine. How did this get turned around to me? David: Now the power of God that you desire in regards to healing the sick and casting out devils is dependent upon faith, not just the faith of the minister of God, but the faith of those being ministered unto. I readily acknowledge to you that in most cases, the power of God being manifest in this way in my public ministry is not nearly what Jesus himself manifested. jt: He said that His followers would do the works He did and greater..... David: I believe that this is because of faith and the time in which we live. Jesus himself had to lay his miracle ministry aside and stay with teaching only when the faith of the people did not allow it because of unbelief. Consider the following passages of Scripture: And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching. (Mark 6:5-6KJV). Matthew says it this way: And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief. (Matthew 13:58 KJV) jt: I hear you and will agree that it is ever so much worse today. Today people refuse to make the connection between sin and disease and some even go so far as to call sickness a blessing; they don't want to believe God to be healed but don't mind going to a doctor to get rid of God's blessing. David: As the gospel message has spread far and wide and become common place, we experience much the same thing in a kind of historical age context that Jesus experienced in going to his hometown. People think they know about Jesus. People think they know who he is and what he is about. They lack faith in him. Therefore, Jesus is not able to do many mighty works among them, but he ends up sticking primarily with teaching. jt: From what I see around me I think that teaching is necessary but not to the exclusion of the other. David: The Scriptures speak clearly that there is an apostasy in the last days, and that the love of many would wax cold (remember that faith works by love). Therefore, we expect more and more for there to be a falling away, for the miraculous ministry in public places to wane, and the prophetic ministry of judgment to become more prevalent. This is the Elijah spirit which was prophesied to come before the great and terrible day of the Lord. jt: I see the apostasy and the lack of love but I am not completely understanding about the Elijah spirit. I looked up the scriptures on it and I really like the song "These are the days of Elijah" - but then I liked a song from Joel 2 about the Army of the Lord and later found out I was singing about an army of demons. David: Therefore, my mindset is that the age of grace is drawing to a close. As this happens, there will be more and more testimony along the lines of that given by the two witnesses in Revelation 11. In other words, not all preaching will be just "good news" preaching, but prophetic warnings of the judgment of God. Such would not be harvesting messages, seeking to save the lost, but legal warnings and admonitions given by a just God. Such messages actually will torment the wicked, just as the two witnesses in Revelation 11 are said to have tormented those on the earth. "... these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth." (Revelation 11:10 KJV) jt: I'm not locked into any certain end time scenario and when I read about these two witnesses I think of Israel and the Church rather than two certain individuals. If I'm wrong about this the Lord will have to show me. The knee jerk reaction to the 10 Commandments monument in Alabama shows how much the world hates that witness. David: There is one other aspect to consider here in regards to public ministry, and that is the difference between sowing and reaping. The apostles were sent forth to reap where they had not sown. "And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth. I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours." (John 4:37-38 KJV) jt: Yes.... David: Those who had sown did not have the miraculous ministry (for example, John the Baptist ministering in the Elijah spirit), whereas those who reaped did have the miraculous ministry. Many street preachers today primarily practice a sowing ministry. They sow the word of God, often ministering the law, and others will later reap (harvest) what they have sown. Understanding the diversity of Christ will help us not miss something God is doing just because it does not look exactly like what we are expecting. jt: I see....but we should see the Spirit of Christ in action. The scriptures I read about the end time activity of Elijah was that of restoring the hearts of the fathers to the children. They (homosexuals) are already under a curse, we don't need to condemn them any further. David: I hope you understand that I do not condemn anyone. I only declare God's Word concerning the Truth. Those who are condemned are condemned by their own heart and by their own words. I certainly take away their cloak for sin, but I do not directly condemn them. This is a subtle but important distinction. jt: Hmm, I don't know about a cloak - their sin is public and flagrant. David: If we try and make sure nobody is condemned by anything we say or do, we will definitely miss God. That's basically what politicians do, try to be on everyone's good side. God does not operate this way. jt: That's not what I'm talking about David; politicians practice the art of compromise which is not what I am advocating. However, there is a difference between condemnation and conviction. One is from the enemy and the other is from the Lord. Since these people are strangers to the covenants of grace and many have not known love at all in their lives, I just believe Jesus' approach to be best and I like what Isaiah prophesied about Him: "Behold my servant, whom I uphold, mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth. I have put my spirit upon him, he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench; he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged till he have set judgment in the earth, and the isles shall wait for his law" (Isaiah 42:2,3,4) David: You will find much agreement with Pagan Wolf concerning this idea that we should not say anything that would make sinners feel condemned, because this is a demonic doctrine that is very popular in these last days. Christ's doctrine is that there is behavior that condemns us. Therefore, Jesus and his ministers command men to repent of their evil deeds. jt: I thing offering people who are already condemned the yoke of Jesus is the more excellent way. David: If you think about it, a sinner needs to feel condemned before he can believe upon Christ. If a sinner does not realize that he is condemned, he will not see any need for a Savior. This is the very purpose of the law, to cause men to realize their need for a Savior. If the law is not declared, then men cannot know their evil state and would therefore not see any need to believe upon Jesus Christ. jt: No a sinner needs to feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit before he can repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. David: Ask Pagan Wolf if he believes in God and loves God. Ask Pagan Wolf if he believes that he is at least as good, maybe even better, than most everyone on this list. If he thinks he is a pretty good person as a pagan, at least as good or better than someone who believes in Christ, then he needs the law of God to be taught to him, he needs the Scriptures to be declared to him, he needs to be convinced that he is headed for the lake of fire if he does not trust in Jesus Christ. jt: TPW has seen too much flesh ministry already out on the streets - The Holy Spirit does not follow men's assumptions with signs following. He works with God's Words. David: Unless he sees his own sinful and wicked state, the good news of the gospel will never look like great news to him. Rather, the gospel will appear to him as some inane religious declaration. He will view those who embrace the gospel as foolish religious people who walk in ego and pride rather than a sincere encounter with the saving grace of Jesus Christ. You will never be able to woo Pagan Wolf into being a Christian unless he first becomes convinced that he now stands lost and condemned before God. jt: Hey there is no future tense about it. By his own testimony TPW is already there and his evaluation isn't far off. Look at how some of these ppl act in the name of Christ, shooting doctors, bombing Abortion Clinics, climbing flag poles, and they say God told them to do it? I ask you to show me one place, just one in the book of Acts and all of the Epistles where any valid ministry acted like this. Grace and Peace, Judy Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
