The Bible warns of a real HELL a Eternal PLACE of TORMENT waiting for those who do not trust in Christ in this life.
Resurrection of LIFE or Resurrection of JUDGEMENT? Which for you?
"An hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth, those who committed the good deeds, to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgement" (Jn. 5:28-29).
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" (John 3:36).
"Our beloved brother Paul...wrote to you, as also in all his letters...in which there are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:15-16).
Blaine R Borrowman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
BlaineRB: Thank you Kevin, for taking the time to write the entire BoM passage dealing with this subject. I didn't realize there was anyone on TT who knew of it.I guess I was trying to be easy on you guys, telling them there is just mental anguish, which was just a simplified way of talking about something far more devastating. In a revelation to JS at a later time, after the BoM was translated, The Lord Jesus Christ revealed in his own words what this Hell was all about, and how it felt as he experienced it upon the mount, prior to his actual crucifixion: He said,"For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent. But if they would not repent, they must suffer even as I. Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit--and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink. Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook, and finished my preparations unto the children of men" D&C 19: 16-19He also explained some other things about Hell in the same section. I quote again from his own words:"For behold, the mystery of Godliness, how great is it! For behold, I am endless and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for endless is my name. Wherefore,Eternal punishment is God's punishment,Endless punishment is God's punishment. Wherefore, I command you to repent, and keep the commandments you have received by the hand of my servant Joseph Smith, Jun. in my name." D&C 19:10-13He further stated that this Hell came about as a result of the complete withdrawal of His spirit:"Wherefore I Command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have tasted at the time I withdrew my spirit."D&C 19:20Shalom, BlaineRBOn Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:43:40 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:We are saved after all we can doDo you really believe that? Then you should do everything possible. Have you? When do you think you may progress to that point?
Sounds like you also, (with DAVEH), do not not believe in HELL
Who told you that?
2 Nephi 28:19-25 For the kingdom of the devil must shake, and they which belong to it must needs be stirred up unto repentance, or the devil will grasp them with his everlasting chains, and they be stirred up to anger, and perish; For behold, at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good.And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is welland thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell. And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is noneand thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance. Yea, they are grasped with death, and hell; and death, and hell, and the devil, and all that have been seized therewith must stand before the throne of God, and be judged according to their works, from whence they must go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment. Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion! Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!
According to the Book of Mormon the Devil tells men there is no Hell.
suffer various degrees of mental anguish
Not so according to the Book of Mormon, it is a place, a place were people go away to, a place of endless torment
Jacob 6:10 And according to the power of justice, for justice cannot be denied, ye must go away into that lake of fire and brimstone, whose flames are unquenchable, and whose smoke ascendeth up forever and ever, which lake of fire and brimstone is endless torment.
Blaine R Borrowman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:BlaineRB: The explanation furnished by DavidH below is 100% accurate as far as Mormon beliefs and teachings are concerned. It is the truth. I applaud David for explaining it. Mormons believe in salvation for all if by salvation we mean being resurrected and becoming immortal. But to reside in the presence of God and enjoy his society and share in his glory is a higher form of salvation, and I suppose those who fail to meet the criteria for this higher salvation will suffer various degrees of mental anguish when they realize what might have been, if they had just been more determined to live God's laws to the best of their ability. We are saved after all we can do, not by easy grace. Otherwise, it would make no difference whether we lived the Lord's commandments, or no. Easy grace reminds me somewhat of the little league baseball teams that hand out a trophy to every kid on every team, regardless of how they did in the games.On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 22:43:56 -0800 Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:DAVEH: Nice to meet you, Kevin. I don't believe I've had the pleasure of chatting with you before.Kevin Deegan wrote:
DAVEH: FTR......JS is not my God. Let me remind you, I worship God,--
our Heavenly Father, and consider his divine Son, Jesus Christ, my
Savior and Redeemer. DaveH I have a few questions , could you fill me in?
DAVEH: I can try.
You say you Worship the Father. I was wondering do you also worship the Son?DAVEH: Only to glorify the Father. I don't know if that will make sense to you though. In short, we worship our Father in Heaven, as we feel Jesus did every thing to glorify his Father in Heaven. I don't think he (Jesus) would want us to worship him at his Father's expense.DAVEH: I hope you did not say that with hate dripping from your tongue, Dean. I know you consider me a lost soul, and I'm sorry that you feel that way. I just hope you don't lose too much sleep at night worrying about me (or JS). IMO, if you let hate eat away at your conscience, the spiritual pain will be as the "where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched". To me, that is the real hell the Bible conveys when it refers to the lake of fire. (The other hell is physical death.) People create their own hell by distancing themselves from the love of Christ. There is no place for hate in heaven, and those who harbor hate in their lives will have a hard time achieving full salvation. So........please Dean, don't let hate for me, JS or other LDS folks keep you from the love of Jesus So you do not believe in a physical Hell?
DAVEH: Yes, but not in the same sense as Protestants and the RCC. I believe the degree of hell one experiences is more related to the distance one is removed from the love of Christ. The fiery hell is mentioned in the Bible in a symbolic sense to denote how one will feel when devoid of that divine love. I know that is a simplistic explanation, and I will be happy to explain in more detail if you wish. What do you mean FULL Salvation?
DAVEH: The first component of salvation is overcoming physical death. At death, the spirit separates from the body and until the resurrection of Jesus, there was no chance of the body being joined to the spirit after death. With the advent of Jesus' birth, death and resurrection, that chasm (denoted as one form of "hell" in the Bible) was no longer a stumbling block to one's salvation.The second component of salvation involves returning to heaven. I believe there will reside no unclean thing in heaven. Those who eventually get there will be perfect. Hence Jesus' command, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Mt 5:48
Now perfection is a problem for those who have not been 'perfect'. So, Jesus became the vicarious propitiation for our imperfections. In return he requires a few things from us......viz., faith, repentance, baptism.......endure to the end. Once we do all we can do, then we are judged and by virtue of his grace, allowed to return to heaven. If we lack faith, lack repentance or lack baptism......we won't meet his qualifications for 'full salvation'.
However, even though lacking full salvation, we will still obtain partial salvation. For instance, all men will be resurrected. That is, all mortals will overcome the physical death by having their bodies reunited with their spirits. Lacking the above mentioned requirements will mean that even though partially 'saved', they will end up residing some distance from their heavenly goal. And that will be the equivalent of spiritual 'hell'.
I hope that isn't too confusing, Kevin.
When you say achieve do you mean working for it?
DAVEH: It would be nice to think that all one needs to do to be saved is to "declare Jesus" or some such easy act. But it is not Biblical, nor does it make logical sense. I believe we are saved by grace AFTER all we can do. There is no way any of us could achieve salvation (either physical or spiritual) without the resurrection and atonement of Jesus.....therefore, we are saved by his grace. But nobody is going to ride Jesus' coattails into heaven. It's a long walk, and all must step onto the path Jesus trod and follow him there.
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Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
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