Oh so NOW I am Misquoting.
Please provide an example just one will do. With all the LDS quotes I have posted this should be a EASY thing to do. If it were only so.
Trying to poisen the well?
If you can discredit me, then maybe others will not listen. If the facts are facts, then they are able to stand on their own merits!
Go ahead show us!
If you can't please try to refrain from accusing others of things you can not even show.
Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:
CMON Davethere is more to the story than you let on here.Why not fill her in on the "fall upward"?--
DAVEH: I don't recall her asking.
I agree that a caring person would not place someone in a situation that is harmful.
DAVEH: So then let me ask you, Kevin......From your perspective, why did God do it knowing that it would cause such a nuisance for society as a whole, andmuch pain specifically to his only begotten Son?
But again that too does not conform to LDS doctrine. CMON Dave, I am starting to think that you are being purposefully dishonest.
DAVEH: This is coming from one who purposely misquoted SWK???
No more double talk, please. So much of what you say has a HIDDEN LDS meaning. Come clean Dave. Tell us what really happened in the garden!
DAVEH: You seem to have a pretty good LDS library from the material you've been misquoting. Why don't you read it for yourself, Kevin? Hint:DaveH says "UNLESS there is a good reason for those children to experience that situation."What was that good reason Dave?
DAVEH: I believe God put the temptation in the garden of eden specifically to initiate the fall and the plan of salvation. Do you agree or disagree, Kevin? >From what Judy has told me so far, I'm not sure of the Protestant view on this. (Though my guess is that Protestants look at it ----the plan of salvation--- as a clean up the mess program.)
DAVEH: I fully agree. But let me explain it from a different angle, Judy. God created Adam & Eve, knowing beforehand that they would succumb to temptation. (I assume you agree with that.) Then he places a temptation in the garden, knowing they would partake of the forbidden fruit, and what the consequences would be. If instead, God had simply not put that tempting fruit before them, would you the suggest he is a "heavenly dictator "? Not at all. I think he would be like a parent concerned about the welfare of his children, by shielding them from unnecessary evil. Most parents would not place their children in a dangerous situation when they know the outcome of that situation......UNLESS there is a good reason for those children to experience that situation. I don't know if that makes any sense to you, Judy. As a parent, I hope you can see the similarity of the situations that I'm trying to convey.Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
DAVEH: My latest post is in RED.......[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:DAVEH: No, not at all. The Lord's plan of "salvation" was infinitely better than the Adversary's plan. (I could explain why, but some in TT would accuse me of preaching Mormonism, or even worse!) To me, the plan of salvation as enveloped in the gospel has a grand an noble purpose that requires all the steps we've/I've discussed (in TT since I've been posting), starting with Adam & Eve transgressing......which I believe was a fundamental step in that plan. Without the 'fall', there could be no 'salvation' (as I would think of it....which is distinctly different from the Protestant definition). Hence, the Lord's work would not be able to progress.DaveH: pretend world". The reason for that is that the world I live in answers the questions I posed to you (and others in TT.)jt: I see your big hangup is 'why did God allow sin when he could have prevented it?' which tells me you do not understand the concept of moral freedom among other things.DAVEH: I think I understand moral freedom quite well. What I don't understand is why Protestants think it is necessary. jt: What kind of a statement is that?
DAVEH: God had the ability to create a world without sin, and to offer an easy salvation. But that is not the way he did it. Therefore, I believe God had a reason for allowing sin to be a part of his plans. (Hence the subject line to which we are now returning.) I'm trying to find out why Protestants think God 'created sin'. (Or perhaps that's a poor way of stating it......why you think God allows sin to exist.)
Would you rather have a heavenly dictator standing over you with a whip to make sure you do right? This is Satan's plan and it is called 'bondage' it is what Jesus died to deliver us from.
DAVEH: I fully agree. But let me explain it from a different angle, Judy. God created Adam & Eve, knowing beforehand that they would succumb to temptation. (I assume you agree with that.) Then he places a temptation in the garden, knowing they would partake of the forbidden fruit, and what the consequences would be. If instead, God had simply not put that tempting fruit before them, would you the suggest he is a "heavenly dictator "? Not at all. I think he would be like a parent concerned about the welfare of his children, by shielding them from unnecessary evil. Most parents would not place their children in a dangerous situation when they know the outcome of that situation......UNLESS there is a good reason for those children to experience that situation. I don't know if that makes any sense to you, Judy. As a parent, I hope you can see the similarity of the situations that I'm trying to convey. But then I've been doing a little research, and have read that your Church believes that there was some kind of a council of gods in heaven and that Lucifer and Jesus (who are supposedly spirit brothers) both presented their plans. Lucifer's plan was to force men to worship god and Jesus' plan was to show them how to worship god. Lucifer's plan was rejected, and Jesus' plan was accepted. (Pearl of Great Price, Book of Moses 4:103) Is the above what you believe DaveH?
DAVEH: Yes.
Do you think that Lucifer's plan would have been the better one? JudyBTW......I realize my above explanation might seem convoluted and difficult to follow.....sorry 'bout that.
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Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
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