Re: [TruthTalk] Geography of Never Never land

[Kevin Deegan]

The Bible is a Geography book

We know where it's geography is.

Many things have been found to substantiate the bible, some even through use of the bible.

Geography, Archeology and HISTORY, substantiante the Bible

 

No so the BoM

Can you locate 1 city, any of the waters, coins, weapons, places of worship?

All these great civilazations come and gone, and they left not one shred of evidence?

There were GREAT Civilizations described in the BoM, any evidence? Even a shred?

There was a GREAT Battle millions killed at Hill Cumorah any artifacts? A weapon, a skeleton, a fragment of anything? Not a ONE!

 

Not finding a coin is one thing, but to loose whole civilizations, breaks the back of credibility. How could you miss it? Open your eyes look far & wide, over sea & dale, there is NO Evidence.

Reseachers have searched for years, NOTHING.

This is not a Faith thing. God does not expect faith IN SPITE of Evidence.

The Facts line up with the True faith of Christianity. The facts argue against the LDS faith

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

How do you FEEL about this.

If you feel bad do not dismiss it as STUPOR of thought D&C 9:7 

God gave you a mind use it. The D&C tells you to.

 

DC9:8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

" The doctrines of the church cannot be fully understood unless it is tested by mind, by feelings, intellect and emotions, by every power of the investigator. Every church member is expected to understand the doctrine of the church intelligently. There is no place in the church for blind adherence." - John A. Widstoe, Apostle, Evidence and Reconciliations, p. 226

 

John 12:38-40 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

 

2 Tim 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

From: "Blaine Borrowman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Kevin wrote: 
The BoM is a work of FICTION:

 

Blaine writes:  There is so much about the book of Mormon that tells us
it is true, we don't need to know exactly where everything was, but we
believe and have faith it will be revealed in the Lord's own due time
anyway--He has not failed us yet. 

 

Judy:

How would you know whether or not He has failed you yet in these

'geographical' things?

 

Blaine:

We know God is testing our faith--He will pull our very heartstrings

to see if we can stand it, and if we can't, we are not fit for the Kingdom

of God--so, Kevin, and Judy, when the locations are eventually shown

to man, you will be ashamed for not having had more faith,

 

Judy:

Faith in what Blaine - the book of Mormon?

 

Blaine:

while we will be rejoicing, having had our faith tested, and having kept

the faith as true and loyal servants. 

 

Judy:

This is an alien thing so far as true Christianity is concerned. We are to

contend for the faith ONCE DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS and this is

certainly not the writings of Joseph Smith.

 

Blaine:

Our confidence will wax strong in the presence of God, but you will go

away with your heads hanging down, unless you repent of your arrogance

and pride.

 

Judy:

It is not 'arrogance and pride' to be Berean and check things out. Paul

commended the Bereans as being 'more honorable' than the fold in

Thessalonica because they checked his message by the scriptures - and

spiritual discernment is needed more than ever today. 

 

Blaine: 
BTW, there are already several newer books written by BYU people

regards the locations in the BoM--very interesting stuff.  But considering

you are so anxious to make anything favorable to Mormonism appear

wrong, or evil, I have fears you will not read them, or if you do read

them, you would  just fault them. 

 

Judy:

I wouldn't read them or spend time trying to fault them Blaine because

I don't see any need for all the geographical stuff and there is no valid

evidence that Samaritan tribes left the middle east. 

 

Blaine:

Your quotes below  are all back in the 60's and 70's-- any new stuff? 

I do have some things written more recently--all one has to do is visit

Deseret Book Store.  Thye shalves get fuller and fuller. 

 

Judy:

The question is whether or not it is TRUTH - truth is timeless and

does not depend on wordiness or popularity.

 

Grace and Peace,

Judy

 

From: Kevin Deegan
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Geography of Never Never land

 

 

The BoM is a work of FICTION:
BoM Student Manual Religion 121 & 122 published by the churchpg 163 has a
map under the title "Possible Book o Mormon sites"

 

under the map we find this interesting tidbit of information
"NO EFFORT should be made to identify points on this map with any
EXISTING geographical locations"
The Smithsonian Institution has never used the Book of Mormon in any way
as a scientific guide. Smithsonian archeologists see no direct connection
between the archeology of the New World and the subject matter of the
book." ("Statement Regarding The Book of Mormon," Smithsonian
Institution, Spring 1986)
Michael Coe Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Summer 1973. After
telling of the Mormon belief in Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, he
frankly stated: "Let me now state uncategorically that as far as I know
there is not one professionally trained archaeologist, who is not a
Mormon, who sees any scientific justification for believing the foregoing
to be true,... nothing, absolutely nothing, has ever shown up in any New
World excavation which would suggest to a dispassionate observer that the
Book of Mormon... is a historical document relating to the history of
early migrants to our hemisphere." (pp.42, 46)
"The first myth we need to eliminate is that Book of Mormon archaeology
exists…. If one is to study Book of Mormon archaeology, then one must
have a corpus of data with which to deal. We do not. The Book of Mormon
is really there so one can have Book of Mormon studies, and archaeology
is really there so one can study archaeology, but the two are not wed. At
least they are not wed in reality since no Book of Mormon location is
known with reference to modern topography. Biblical archaeology can be
studied because we do know where Jerusalem and Jericho were and are, but
we do not know where Zarahemla and Bountiful (nor any other location for
that matter) were or are. It would seem then that a concentration on
geography should be the first order of business, but we have already seen
that twenty years of such an approach has left us empty-handed."
(Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Summer 1969, pp. 77-78)
Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Long ago & far away....
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,585038271,00.html
SACRED SITES: Searching for Book of Mormon Lands, by Joseph L. Allen
Joseph Allen starts with a premise of the LDS faith: "The Book of Mormon
is a real history. It speaks of real people. The events recorded within
its pages happened somewhere."
But where?

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