From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He could not have said, "Take and eat my old sin ravaged body," because He never sinned. He was tempted, but He did not sin.
JT: I'm glad we can agree on this at least, this is the Presbyterian professor's thesis. vince: Saying that Jesus had a "normal" human body with a built-in fallen nature is not tantamount to saying He sinned. JT: Saying he had a "fallen nature" is tantamount to saying he had a sin nature whether or not he sinned. The reason we are born fallen is because of the "iniquity of the fathers" our inheritance from the first Adam on. It comes down through the father so I don't believe Jesus inherited this at all. IMO and I believe the scriptures teach he was pure and holy all the way through - but could still be tempted. vince: He overcame His flesh, He overcame the world, and He overcame the devil, so there's no way He or his body could have been sin-ravaged. JT: Amen to the above.... On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:03:56 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] JT: Where do you find this equation in scripture Vince? vince: Heb 4:15 (NIV) "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been TEMPTED in EVERY WAY, just as we are --- yet without sin." Heb 2:14-18 (NIV) "Since the chldren have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity .... For this reason he had to be MADE LIKE HIS BROTHERS in **EVERY** WAY, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God ... Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted." The scriptures above say He was like us in every way. From that I infer: He was like us in that He had a fallen human nature. The scriptures above say He was tempted in every way. From that I infer: Some temptations come from the flesh, and He suffered every temptation, therefore He suffered temptations of the flesh. JT: Thanks for your quick response Vince.... only before we make Jesus just like us with a sinful flesh nature - (which is in effect a sinner because we are all born in sin) - don't you think it would be wise to confer with the rest of scripture? The word for "temptation" #3986 means trying circumstances or a sense of trial and when God is involved temptation is always for the purpose of proving someone, never for the purpose of causing him to fall. It is more a trial of one's character as in 1 Peter 4:12, Luke 4:13, and 1 Tim 6:9; Satan may be involved; but the fact that Jesus was tempted in no way assures us that He had the same inheritance in sin as us. Following are a few scriptures to consider... The angel who spoke to Mary spoke of "that Holy One who is to be born ... Luke 1:35 The demons knew who he was and they called Him Holy (see Luke 4:34, Luke 5:41) Hebrews 7:26 tells us He was Holy, harmless, undefiled, and separate from sinners. Jesus Himself said "If you've seen me you've seen the Father" (John 12:45, John 14:9) At the passover Jesus did not commit himself to those wanting to be around him because he knew what was in man (John 2:24,25); and when the time of His passion drew near He told the disciples "the prince of this world cometh and hath nothing in me" (John 14:30) which is not true for anyone else born of a woman. In fact we were dead in trespasses and sin in which we once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience (Eph 2:1) How is Jesus to be the Covenant the "bread of life?" If we accept what Bill Taylor is teaching (the Incarnation is to be understood as the coming of God to take upon himself our fallen human nature, our actual human existence laden with sin and guilt, our humanity diseased in mind and soul in its estrangement or alienation from the Creator) should He have said, "take, eat, this is my old sin ravaged body diseased in mind and soul and estranged and alienated from the Father" which I am giving for you? Was he lying when he claimed to be one with God? Is God the Father one with sin? Grace and Peace, Judy ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
