David Miller wrote:
DAVEH: Ahhhhhhh......thank you for clarifying this, DavidM. That makes a lot of sense.DaveH wrote:Let me ask what to me seems a simple question, DavidM.....what (in relation to the T-Doctrine) is meant by essence? And, why is it brought into the T-Doctrine discussion? Is there anything in the Bible that attributes essence to the Godhead? It seems to me that essence is simply another word coined by post Biblical theologians in an effort to obfuscate rather than to illuminate.I think you are trying to read too much into the word "essence." Essence is a common word of the English language that simply means the quality or nature of something that makes it what it is. Arminius is using the term to signify that Jesus derives his essence of being God from the Father rather than from himself, whereas the Father derives his essence of being God from nobody. According to Arminius, if we do not recognize this, we will logically fall into the error of sabellianism or polytheism, depending on which direction we deviate. If we say that Jesus derives his essence of being God from nobody, we will err on the side of sabellianism because we would really be saying that they are one in the same person (the Son is the Father in this case). On the other hand, if we say that Jesus has an essence in common with the Father, but it was not communicated to him by the Father, then Jesus is collateral with the Father and we have two gods.
DAVEH: I can't speak for Blaine or Jeff, but as I see it there are other Gods, but we only worship one God......our Heavenly Father. He has commissioned his Son (and the Holy Ghost) to work with/for Him under the moniker of the Godhead. But.....I suspect you already knew my beliefs.Most Protestants consider Mormonism to take this position, but some comments by Blaine cause me to question whether or not you really believe this.
DAVEH: It does not seem confusing to me based on my above explanation. But it sure does seem problematic from a Protestant perspective.Jeff even denied polytheism outright and distinguished henotheism from polytheism and preferred its use for the Mormon perception of the godhead.There is no doubt that difficulties arise in reconciling the idea of "one God" with the idea that a distinct person named Jesus also is God.
DAVEH: As I have intimated before.....The problem I have (from my side of the fence) with the T-Doctrine is that it seems to obfuscate the issue rather than clarify it.I think the Trinity is the best way of reconciling the Scriptures as a whole that address this issue.
DAVEH: I don't see it that way at all........Paul pretty well explained it in 1Cor 8:5-6......The problem in Mormonism is that you open up again the Roman and Greek idea of there being many gods, which I believe would be contrary to Scripture and the cherished teaching of Scripture that there is only one God.
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
DAVEH: Why reconcile a dead horse, when Paul pretty well explained it above? To me, the simple answer on this seems the most appropriate. If Jesus is (a) God (and I think most TTers would agree with that), and he glorifies his Father while suggesting that his Father is greater than he......then it seems pretty logical to me that both are God though separate and distinctly different. Trying to combine them only works when doing so in the form of the Godhead, which is uniquely purpose driven. With one purpose, they (including the HS) form the Godhead......which purpose is encompassed in the plan of salvation. At least that's how I see it, DavidM.If you would be exercise your brain a little more on this, read the Arminius defense carefully, I think you will see that there is merit to reconciling the idea of the Trinity.
Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
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