From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
John: Wow. There are so many
things we disagree on.
Pick ONE of the following and stay
with it, judy. I will respond to all your
commits -- which I
never do. But to illustrate just how far apart we are,
here I go. My current
remarks are in caps. John
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Not without repentance which means the sinner must consciously repent of and turn
In a message dated 3/27/2004 4:36:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
from their sin.
john: What happens to the fellow who is not aware of his sin?
jt: The preaching of the cross should convict the world of sin, righteousness, and the
judgment to come and God anoints/empowers His Words, not our substitutes.
YOU DID NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION UNLESS YOU THINK THAT
PETER ON PENTECOST DAY SOLVED ALL THE DOCTRINAL PROBLEMS
OF THE THOUSANDS OF JEWS WHO WERE SAVED ON THAT DAY -- A
RATHER SILLY IDEA, I MUST ADD.
jt: On the day of Pentecost it was God adding to the
Church and Peter
preached truth did he not? Do you understand the
new covenant promise
in Jeremiah 31:34 (and other places) that becomes
activated by faith
in Christ?
john: The flow of the blood doesn't work until he, the sinner, does the right thing?
How in the world do you explain "salvation by faith apart from works?"
jt: Faith without corresponding actions is dead. I know Luther didn't like this but
it is so. Salvation is a faith walk, not a one time prayer and the blood only cleanses
the conscience when we come to the throne of grace in time of need.
john: The flow of the blood doesn't work until he, the sinner, does the right thing?
How in the world do you explain "salvation by faith apart from works?"
jt: Faith without corresponding actions is dead. I know Luther didn't like this but
it is so. Salvation is a faith walk, not a one time prayer and the blood only cleanses
the conscience when we come to the throne of grace in time of need.
I DON'T CARE ABOUT LUTHER AT THIS JUNCTURE. READ
ROMANS THREE AND FOUR AND TELL ME HOW WE ARE SAVED
BY FAITH APART FROM OBEDIENCE TO THE COMMANDMENS OF
GOD.
jt: Whatsoever the law saith, it saith to them who are
under the law that
every mouth should be stopped and all the world may
become guilty
before God (Rom 3:19) V.20 Therefore by the deeds of
the law shall no
flesh be justified in his sight for by the law is the
knowledge of sin.....
THAT IS WHAT PAUL SAID. JAMES IS TALKING ABOUT THE
_expression_ OF FAITH IN BENEVOLENT ACTIVITY AND ALL
OF HIS EXAMPLES ILLUSTRATE THAT SPECIFIC POINT. BUT
DO NOT ARGUE THAT MATTER. LET'S JUST STICK WITH WHAT
PAUL SAID.
jt: OK, when Paul spoke about becoming all things to all men so
that
he might win some he spoke about being
under the law to win Jews
and without the law for Gentiles;
and he goes on to explain that he
was not an entire anarchist because he was
under the law of Christ
(this is where believers are to walk).
He gives the Holy Spirit to
those who obey Him.
john: And why is it necessary for God to continue accepting our faith
IN THE PLACE OF righteousness?
jt: God accepts faith with corresponding actions. Abraham is our example being
the father of faith. He was willing to go to the mountain with firewood and the son
of promise. God likes this kind of faith. Passive acceptance does not move Him
and there is no way to make it without His empowerment.
EXCEPT FOR THE GUY IN ROMANS 2:12FF. AND YOUR
EXAMPLE OF ABRAHAM IS NOT THE BIBLICAL ARGUMENT
PAUL IS MAKING.... GO BACK AND READ ROMANS 4. THE
POINT IS THAT ABRAHAM COULD DO NOTHING BUT ACCEPT
WHAT GOD SAID ABOUT HIS (ABRAHAM'S) OFFSPRING --
THAt IS THE BIBLICAL EXAMPLE.
jt: Only if you are a Calvinist. Abraham BELIEVED God
and that
was counted to him for righteousness. He willingly left
all he had
known in Ur to depart for the unknown - looking for a
city whose
builder and maker was God
and God called him 'his friend'.
It's not God's way to force His will; we choose whom we
will
serve and that way if we spend eternity in the wrong
place that
is also our choice.
john: What is your message of hope to the addicted?
jt: The truth will make the addicted free if they are willing to act on it.
ROMANS 7 DESCRIBES THE ADDICTED -- TO A TEE.
VERSE 25 CLEARLY SAYS THAT HIS PROBLEM CONTINUES
BUT (8:1) WITHOUT CONDEMNATION.
jt: You must be reading the non-inspired version (NIV);
the second
part of that verse is also important. "there is
therefore now no
condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who
walk not
after the flesh, but after the
Spirit."
tHE GLORY OF THE GOSPEL BY GRACE IS THAT THE ADDICT
HAS ALL THE TIME HE NEEDS TO OVERCOME HIS PROBLEM.
YOU SAY THAT HE HAS NO TIME. NONSENSE.
jt: When did I say he had 'no time?' I've never
said anything like that.
However, those not walking after the Spirit in Christ
are in the flesh
and still under
condemnation.
john: And the guy in South Africa who has never heard of Christ?
jt: God is faithful and the Good News will be preached to the world before the
end comes.
john: And the guy in South Africa who has never heard of Christ?
jt: God is faithful and the Good News will be preached to the world before the
end comes.
THE GUY DIED YESTERDAY. NOW WHAT.
jt: Not your problem or mine, God is big enough to deal
with it.
john: And the gang banger who was molested by a minister and rejects "religion"
out of hand because of that experience?
jt: He may be better off than the dead 'religious' because he sees it for what it
is. God's mercy is available to him also; the professing church is full of the
wounded and walking dead.
john: And the gang banger who was molested by a minister and rejects "religion"
out of hand because of that experience?
jt: He may be better off than the dead 'religious' because he sees it for what it
is. God's mercy is available to him also; the professing church is full of the
wounded and walking dead.
APPARENTLY NOT IN YOUR CHURCH. AS I READ YOUR
GOSPEL, ALL THEIR SIN PROBLEMS HAVE VANIISHED.
jt: You have been reading some other gospel John, not
mine.
john: Where does I.Q. fit into your scheme of things.
jt: IQ is fine when submitted to the word and the will of God, being smart after
the flesh won't profit. Obedience is what counts.
john: Where does I.Q. fit into your scheme of things.
jt: IQ is fine when submitted to the word and the will of God, being smart after
the flesh won't profit. Obedience is what counts.
I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE WALKING DUMB. THE BORDERLINE
GUYS. MY POST IS CLEAR ON THAT. YOU NEED TO ACTUALLY
READ THE POST BEFORE YOU START YOUR RESPONSE.
jt: I responded to the one line you wrote John. How am
I supposed
to know what you have not written. I can't read your
mind.
john: Some people just do not have the smarts to understand some things but
can grasp others.
jt: Noone has the whole loaf. Jesus keeps us dependent upon himself and this
is why when he ascended he gave gifts to men which are dispensed by the Holy
Spirit as HE WILLS. However, since the CofC is against music they are most
likely closed to 1 Corinthians 12 also as are some other denominations so the
professing church today is powerless and divided. All we can receive are a
few crumbs.
john: Some people just do not have the smarts to understand some things but
can grasp others.
jt: Noone has the whole loaf. Jesus keeps us dependent upon himself and this
is why when he ascended he gave gifts to men which are dispensed by the Holy
Spirit as HE WILLS. However, since the CofC is against music they are most
likely closed to 1 Corinthians 12 also as are some other denominations so the
professing church today is powerless and divided. All we can receive are a
few crumbs.
NOT SURE WHY YOU THREW IN THE SLAM AGAINST THE C OF C.
I AM FOURSQUARE BY DENOMINATIONAL CHOICE. SO YOU
ARE SAYING THAT ONE OF GOD'S GIFTS IS A SMART PILL
TO THE EFFECTUAL DUMB?
jt: No that's not what I'm saying, nor am I slamming
the CofC; you
did say you were in that denomination didn't you?
I know they are
not open to spiritual gifts or have things changed
recently?
ACTUALLY, THE ONLY THING HAT I WANT TO DISCUSS WITH
ACTUALLY, THE ONLY THING HAT I WANT TO DISCUSS WITH
YOU IS THE ISSUE OF SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
APART FROM OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW OF GOD. THAT'S
IT.
jt: Sounds to me as though you have also taken up an offence John.
jt: Sounds to me as though you have also taken up an offence John.
You fellows are just too intellectual and smart for someone like
me.
