Re: [TruthTalk] God in our unconscious

[Wm. Taylor]

No! Judy.  This is what John wrote >  Where does I.Q. fit into your scheme of things. Some people just do not have the smarts to understand some things but can grasp others.     john: Where does I.Q. fit into your scheme of things. . . . .> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . .> . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . .. . . .> . . . . . . . . . . . .  . . . . . . .> jt: IQ is fine when submitted to the word and the will of God, being smart after the flesh won't profit.  Obedience is what counts. I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE WALKING DUMB.   THE BORDERLINE GUYS.  MY POST IS CLEAR ON THAT.  YOU NEED TO ACTUALLY READ THE POST BEFORE YOU START YOUR RESPONSE.   jt: I responded to the one line you wrote John. How am I supposed to know what you have not written. I can't read your mind.        . . . .> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .> . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . ..> Some people just do not have the smarts to understand some things but can grasp others.   Judy, You are the one who caused the ambiguity.   The one line that John wrote was actually two before you destroyed the context. The second line qualifies the first and gives it meaning. His words become vague only after the two lines are separated. You did this to yourself, Judy. Please stop the non-sense. You say that you are not trying to be contentious. FINE. I will take your word for it. Please consider some simple suggestions. Read the whole post before responding to any of it. Read for understanding NOT for an opening to attack. Do not look for excuses to rebuke. Read to learn first and disagree only after seeking clarification. Hold off on the rebuke until after you have exhausted all possibility that you too may be part of the problem. Please observe these simple rules of etiquette and see if we do not all experience an amazing change of climate.   Respectfully,     Bill Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Taylor To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] God in our unconscious From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] John: Wow.  There are so many things we disagree on.   Pick ONE of the following and stay with it, judy.   I will respond to all your commits  --  which I never do.  But to illustrate just how far apart we are, here I go.  My current remarks are in caps.  John From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 3/27/2004 4:36:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not without repentance which means the sinner must consciously repent of and turn from their sin. john: What happens to the fellow who is not aware of his sin?   jt: The preaching of the cross should convict the world of sin, righteousness, and the judgment to come and God anoints/empowers His Words, not our substitutes. YOU DID NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION UNLESS YOU THINK THAT PETER ON PENTECOST DAY SOLVED ALL THE DOCTRINAL PROBLEMS OF THE THOUSANDS OF JEWS WHO WERE SAVED ON THAT DAY  --  A RATHER SILLY IDEA, I MUST ADD.   jt: On the day of Pentecost it was God adding to the Church and Peter preached truth did he not?  Do you understand the new covenant promise in Jeremiah 31:34 (and other places) that becomes activated by faith in Christ? john: The flow of the blood doesn't work until he, the sinner, does the right thing?   How in the world do you explain "salvation by faith apart from works?"   jt: Faith without corresponding actions is dead. I know Luther didn't like this but it is so.  Salvation is a faith walk, not a one time prayer and the blood only cleanses the conscience when we come to the throne of grace in time of need. I DON'T CARE ABOUT LUTHER AT THIS JUNCTURE.  READ ROMANS THREE AND FOUR AND TELL ME HOW WE ARE SAVED BY FAITH APART FROM OBEDIENCE TO THE COMMANDMENS OF GOD.      jt: Whatsoever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law that every mouth should be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God (Rom 3:19) V.20 Therefore by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight for by the law is the knowledge of sin.....   THAT IS WHAT PAUL SAID.  JAMES IS TALKING ABOUT THE _expression_ OF FAITH IN BENEVOLENT ACTIVITY AND ALL OF HIS EXAMPLES ILLUSTRATE THAT SPECIFIC POINT. BUT DO NOT ARGUE THAT MATTER.  LET'S JUST STICK WITH WHAT PAUL SAID.   jt: OK, when Paul spoke about becoming all things to all men so that he might win some he spoke about being under the law to win Jews and without the law for Gentiles; and he goes on to explain that he was not an entire anarchist because he was under the law of Christ (this is where believers are to walk).  He gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him. john: And why is it necessary for God to continue accepting our faith IN THE PLACE OF righteousness?   jt: God accepts faith with corresponding actions. Abraham is our example being the father of faith. He was willing to go to the mountain with firewood and the son of promise.  God likes this kind of faith. Passive acceptance does not move Him and there is no way to make it without His empowerment. EXCEPT FOR THE GUY IN ROMANS 2:12FF.  AND YOUR EXAMPLE OF ABRAHAM IS NOT THE BIBLICAL ARGUMENT PAUL IS MAKING.... GO BACK AND READ ROMANS 4.   THE POINT IS THAT ABRAHAM COULD DO NOTHING BUT ACCEPT WHAT GOD SAID ABOUT HIS (ABRAHAM'S) OFFSPRING  -- THAt IS THE BIBLICAL EXAMPLE.   jt: Only if you are a Calvinist. Abraham BELIEVED God and that was counted to him for righteousness. He willingly left all he had known in Ur to depart for the unknown - looking for a city whose builder and maker was God and God called him 'his friend'. It's not God's way to force His will; we choose whom we will serve and that way if we spend eternity in the wrong place that is also our choice. john: What is your message of hope to the addicted?    jt: The truth will make the addicted free if they are willing to act on it. ROMANS 7 DESCRIBES THE ADDICTED -- TO A TEE.    VERSE 25 CLEARLY SAYS THAT HIS PROBLEM CONTINUES BUT (8:1) WITHOUT CONDEMNATION.     jt: You must be reading the non-inspired version (NIV); the second part of that verse is also important. "there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."   tHE GLORY OF THE GOSPEL BY GRACE IS THAT THE ADDICT HAS ALL THE TIME HE NEEDS TO OVERCOME HIS PROBLEM.   YOU SAY THAT HE HAS NO TIME.   NONSENSE.   jt: When did I say he had 'no time?'  I've never said anything like that. However, those not walking after the Spirit in Christ are in the flesh and still under condemnation. john: And the guy in South Africa who has never heard of Christ? jt: God is faithful and the Good News will be preached to the world before the end comes. THE GUY DIED YESTERDAY.  NOW WHAT.   jt: Not your problem or mine, God is big enough to deal with it. john: And the gang banger who was molested by a minister and rejects "religion" out of hand because of that experience?   jt: He may be better off than the dead 'religious' because he sees it for what it is. God's mercy is available to him also; the professing church is full of the wounded and walking dead. APPARENTLY NOT IN YOUR CHURCH.   AS I READ YOUR GOSPEL, ALL THEIR SIN PROBLEMS HAVE VANIISHED.   jt: You have been reading some other gospel John, not mine.  john: Where does I.Q. fit into your scheme of things.   jt: IQ is fine when submitted to the word and the will of God, being smart after the flesh won't profit.  Obedience is what counts. I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE WALKING DUMB.   THE BORDERLINE GUYS.  MY POST IS CLEAR ON THAT.  YOU NEED TO ACTUALLY READ THE POST BEFORE YOU START YOUR RESPONSE.   jt: I responded to the one line you wrote John. How am I supposed to know what you have not written. I can't read your mind. john: Some people just do not have the smarts to understand some things but can grasp others. jt: Noone has the whole loaf. Jesus keeps us dependent upon himself and this is why when he ascended he gave gifts to men which are dispensed by the Holy Spirit as HE WILLS. However, since the CofC is against music they are most likely closed to 1 Corinthians 12 also as are some other denominations so the professing church today is powerless and divided.  All we can receive are a few crumbs. NOT SURE WHY YOU THREW IN THE SLAM AGAINST THE C OF C.    I AM FOURSQUARE BY DENOMINATIONAL CHOICE.   SO YOU ARE SAYING THAT ONE OF GOD'S GIFTS IS A SMART PILL TO THE EFFECTUAL DUMB?   jt: No that's not what I'm saying, nor am I slamming the CofC; you did say you were in that denomination didn't you?  I know they are not open to spiritual gifts or have things changed recently? ACTUALLY, THE ONLY THING HAT I WANT TO DISCUSS WITH YOU IS THE ISSUE OF SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH APART FROM OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW OF GOD.   THAT'S IT.    jt: Sounds to me as though you have also taken up an offence John. You fellows are just too intellectual and smart for someone like me.