----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 3:38
PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Divine Nature
[Formerly -- Prayer Request]
I hope you all don't mind, but I have renamed this thread more
appropriately
I think understand the following:
DAVEH's position: I believe
Jesus existed as a spirit being in the OT. His spirit body then became
clothed in a body of flesh and blood for a brief span some 2000 years
ago. At his death, the spirit and physical body departed, only to be
reunited a short time later in a resurrected form of flesh and bones. I
believe he continues to be a spirit being that is clothed with physical body
of flesh and bones to this day.
Charles Perry Locke's position: The
aspect of the Trinity referred to as "the Son" became a man, was crucified,
and was raised from the dead.
Slade, deconstructing what DAVEH has said, sees that there
seems to be some sort of "evolution" in Yeshua from the Tanakh period, to the
Gospel period, and finally to the post -Gospel period. Do you believe that
Yeshua is now GOD (or a GOD?") since He
was resurrected from the dead? It seems you do not believe He held that
"position" before that event. I agree with the pre-existence of Yeshua before
His physical birth, but I must qualify that Yeshua was GOD before His physical
birth (i.e., incarnation). This explains why Yeshua pre-existed... because He
is GOD. More on that later. (I am intentionally
restating facts in order to try to make this perfectly clear because
nomenclature problems have existed in the past between DAVEH and I and I want
that to stop.)
Deconstructing Perry's position, I see what appears to be a
standard "orthodox" Christian position passed down from the later Church
fathers (i.e., Aquinas and Austustine). I also know from other positional
references Perry has made, he does not believe in three gods (a common
perverse argument used against the Trinitarian position). While I do not quite
understand the Trinity I don't think anyone else does. The more one attempts
to answer and codify the position, the higher the risk for heresy and
wrong-positioning.
Slade's position: Throwing myself
out on a limb for you all to effectively hew so I can fall, I see the manifold
aspects of YHVH through the grammar of the Hebrew language when the Deity is
described or mentioned. I see plural words used for a single Entity (I am
sorry for such a bland term) used with singular verbs -- a highly interesting
aspect of Hebrew grammar used exclusively with YHVH. I also see singular
nouns/pronouns used for YHVH with plural verbs -- again, highly intriguing. We
also know that there is but one GOD and besides Him there is not one god.
Yeshua, throughout the texts, is given Divine status in multiple ways
(outright references, strings of pearls, innuendos, etc.) Yeshua, being GOD is
accredited with being the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow (I believe that
"yesterday" in this reference is an idiom for "forever in the past").
Therefore, there cannot be an "evolution" of Yeshua from man to God. Also,
since YHVH knows of no other god, there cannot be some "evolution to godhood"
for anyone else either. I do not hold to the standard Trinitarian position
because I see YHVH as far, FAR bigger than a Trinity. There are other
"Characters" within the Tanakh who claim the status of YHVH that we cannot
ignore simply because it doesn't fit the Trinitarian mode. HOWEVER... I do
find it interesting that there are three "persons" in writing... First Person,
Second Person, and Third person. Is that coincidence?
Alright, DAVEH... there ya go! You wanted to know my position,
and you have it in a very small nutshell. Anything more will take a lot more
typing.
(please be kind....)
-- slade
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Charles Perry
Locke
Sent: Thursday, 01 July, 2004 10:03
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Prayer
Request
