----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 3:38
PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Divine Nature
[Formerly -- Prayer Request]
I hope you all don't mind, but I have renamed this thread
more appropriately
I think understand the following:
DAVEH's position: I
believe Jesus existed as a spirit being in the OT. His spirit body
then became clothed in a body of flesh and blood for a brief span some
2000 years ago. At his death, the spirit and physical body departed,
only to be reunited a short time later in a resurrected form of flesh and
bones. I believe he continues to be a spirit being that is clothed
with physical body of flesh and bones to this day.
Charles Perry Locke's position:
The aspect of the Trinity referred to as "the Son" became a man, was
crucified, and was raised from the dead.
Slade, deconstructing what DAVEH has said, sees that there
seems to be some sort of "evolution" in Yeshua from the Tanakh period, to
the Gospel period, and finally to the post -Gospel period. Do you believe
that Yeshua is now GOD (or a GOD?")
since He was resurrected from the dead? It seems you do not believe He
held that "position" before that event. I agree with the pre-existence of
Yeshua before His physical birth, but I must qualify that Yeshua was GOD
before His physical birth (i.e., incarnation). This explains why Yeshua
pre-existed... because He is GOD. More on that later. (I am intentionally restating facts in order to try to make this
perfectly clear because nomenclature problems have existed in the past
between DAVEH and I and I want that to stop.)
Deconstructing Perry's position, I see what appears to be
a standard "orthodox" Christian position passed down from the later Church
fathers (i.e., Aquinas and Austustine). I also know from other positional
references Perry has made, he does not believe in three gods (a common
perverse argument used against the Trinitarian position). While I do not
quite understand the Trinity I don't think anyone else does. The more one
attempts to answer and codify the position, the higher the risk for heresy
and wrong-positioning.
Slade's position: Throwing
myself out on a limb for you all to effectively hew so I can fall, I see
the manifold aspects of YHVH through the grammar of the Hebrew language
when the Deity is described or mentioned. I see plural words used for a
single Entity (I am sorry for such a bland term) used with singular verbs
-- a highly interesting aspect of Hebrew grammar used exclusively with
YHVH. I also see singular nouns/pronouns used for YHVH with plural verbs
-- again, highly intriguing. We also know that there is but one GOD and
besides Him there is not one god. Yeshua, throughout the texts, is given
Divine status in multiple ways (outright references, strings of pearls,
innuendos, etc.) Yeshua, being GOD is accredited with being the same
yesterday, today, and tomorrow (I believe that "yesterday" in this
reference is an idiom for "forever in the past"). Therefore, there cannot
be an "evolution" of Yeshua from man to God. Also, since YHVH knows of no
other god, there cannot be some "evolution to godhood" for anyone else
either. I do not hold to the standard Trinitarian position because I see
YHVH as far, FAR bigger than a Trinity. There are other "Characters"
within the Tanakh who claim the status of YHVH that we cannot ignore
simply because it doesn't fit the Trinitarian mode. HOWEVER... I do find
it interesting that there are three "persons" in writing... First Person,
Second Person, and Third person. Is that coincidence?
Alright, DAVEH... there ya go! You wanted to know my
position, and you have it in a very small nutshell. Anything more will
take a lot more typing.
(please be kind....)
-- slade
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Charles Perry
Locke
Sent: Thursday, 01 July, 2004
10:03
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Prayer Request
