Izzy,
I have not been involved in name calling. Please identify where I have. I have exposed what I see your attitude as being: holier than thou. Read your own posts again. They drip with sarcasm and place you in a position above me. I have not asked you to read several books in this thread. I did mention that several (read hundreds) are available to DaveH. I have asked you to go to the archive and read up on how this has already been discussed. Why is this offensive to you? You have refused to read links provided before. Should I interpret it as laziness? Why do you want the most for the least?
Your post below talks about how it is immoral to give false witness. This very day you circulate an email that is a blatant lie. You are made aware of this. You say, oh well I was tired. There is no apology to the group. We are left with the impression that you could care less if you lie about your 'enemy'. Do you really think 'it is moral to lie'? Your behaviour shows otherwise.
I agree with the definition of 'moral' that you provided. I pointed out that you did not define moralism but rather just the root. You ignored this. I pointed out that you have added to this definition by placing it in the context of God. I pointed out that God is missing from the actual definition. In other words your definition proved what I was saying: God is absent from morals. There are not two categories of morals, God-centered and secular-based. They are all secular based. In Nazi Germany it was moral (i.e. it was not against their conscience and was considered good behaviour) to exterminate the Jews. Take your definition of moral again (I will include your patronizing comments):
Perhaps you know better what the word “moral” means than anyone else who speaks English. Poor ignorant me, I just agree with the dictionary which states the following:
morÂal Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.
Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.
Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.
Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation.
Now please show me in this definition where God is. God is completely absent. Christianity is completely absent. It is a completely secular definition.
Jonathan
From: ShieldsFamily
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] from O'Reilley to you
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 06:30:44 -0700
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Jonathan, Okay, at least here you are discussing instead of name calling or telling me to go read several books before you will talk. It seems that you believe in two kinds of morals (1) those that are God-based and (2) those that are secular-based. Do I have this right so far? Need I explain that I only believe in God-based morals. There are no other morals. All true morals are obedience to God’s Law, whether or not the person realizes that or not. If someone thinks it is moral to lie, then he is not a moral person. Lying is not moral no matter how much you believe it is. Why? Because God’s word says Do not bear false witness. Do you see my standard here? I do not believe there is a secular morality. When I speak of morality I am ONLY referring to God-based right vs wrong. A Satanist cannot be “moral”, but he can do “moral” acts, such as helping an old man across the street. Can you understand my viewpoint at all? Izzy
Jonathan, Let’s go back to square one in my post below. (1) Do you, or do you not, agree with the Dictionary’s definition of “moral”? (2) Next, instead of name-calling, how about choosing one statement and telling me exactly why you disagree with it. Tell me exactly and precisely what statement I made below disturbs you. This is called intelligent discussion. It is also called humility. Try it; you might like it. Izzy
Jonathan Hughes
Supervisor of Application Support
Kingsway Financial
905-629-7888 x. 2471
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