RE: [TruthTalk] from O'Reilley to you

[ShieldsFamily]

Izzy jumps back in in red! J   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 2:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [TruthTalk] from O'Reilley to you       On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:50:42 -0400 "Hughes Jonathan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Judy,   Welcome to the fray.  To answer your first question, unequivocally I consider myself to be able to judge (used in the sense of discernment, not in the sense of putting myself in a position above the other) the foreign policy and its inventors in America.  I certainly believe that God calls us to justice and not only that but that He loves justice.  As His follower I abide by that.    jt: I agree that God loves justice and that this is what we should seek in our own particular area of influence. However, unless we feel called to run for public office what is the point of this kind of discernment.  I have a difficult time believing it is one of the spiritual giftings as I don't find a call for ordinary believers to judge nations in any gospel or epistle..    Do you believe abortion is wrong Judy?  There we go.  We both agree that we should fight injustice.  Hide behind 'do not judge' verses but people are dying.   jt: Yes abortion is wrong - Thou shalt not kill.  And I would never have one.  However, I can not force my preference upon another; every person has a God-given right to make their own choice even when it is the wrong one and causes judgment and death.  Judy, I cannot believe you are actually saying that you approve of the laws allowing abortion.  Tell me it isn’t so!  If you do, for the reason above, then don’t you agree that we should not outlaw ANY form of murder, theft, etc, because everyone has a right to their own choice?   You are correct in saying that the UN is a political organization.  They have been doing this survey for years.  Canada has topped the list at least 4 times in the last 10 years but has recently fallen to 4th. Don’t feel bad, Jonathan, the UN is a despicable institution of godlessness. No one would worry about their opinion, as it is directly in opposition to God’s opinion on just about any given subject.  http://www.rfcnet.org/newsletter/september2002k.asp     jt: I lived in Canada for several years - what makes it so wonderful in the eyes of the UN?   Terrorism should be solved by ideology not by violence.  Do you think that’s why we had such success up until 9/11 in stamping out terrorism?  Look at the fruit of nothing but talk and appeasement, Jonathan!  Dead bodies of innocent men, women, and children.   jt: How does one reason with demons? How does ideology stop women from Chechnya from blowing up airplanes and killing other people and how does ideology stop the al Queda network from cutting the heads off hostages to get their own way politically?  They obviously have a different ideology from ours and so far as they are concerned it is going to be their way or no way.  I'm sure glad they don't yet have access to a nuclear weapon.   Your lack of knowledge regarding such figures as Pol Pot is agonizing to me.  You are aware that the US was in complete support of Pol Pot for years? Another reason why godly Americans should be active in politics; to keep men like JFK from being President.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot) Jonathan, your own websit explains that “At times, the United States directly and indirectly supported Pol Pot and his hostility against the Soviet Union.”  The USA never sanctioned any atrocities by Pol Pot.  And I hope you do realize that it was Democrat JFK who embroiled America in that entire Vietnam travesty, Democrat Johnson who continued it, and Republican Nixon who withdrew American presence. You realize that Saddam was a best friend to the States prior to the invasion of Kuwait?  The USA sided with crazy Iraq in order to keep the country from being overrun by even crazier Iran and causing Middle East instability. That was then; this is now. You realize that US support was during their horrors they perpetuated on their own citizens? No I do not.  You realize that the United States was convicted of Terrorism by the World Court for its war in Nicaragua (http://www.infoanarchy.org/wiki/wiki.pl?  action=""> The USA is not under the rule of any international body, and does not have to bow to their opinions.  How many years back do you America haters have to go to justify your liberal indoctrination?   jt: Do you have proof for all of these allegations Jonathan or is this hear say?  Also is America allowed to make any mistakes? People make wrong choices and so do nations.  Why not let God who not only knows what happened but also knows the secrets of men's hearts make these judgment calls?    You realize that at least 100000 children have died in Iraq due to the sanctions put in place by the US through the UN since 1992 (this figure is probably closer to 300000).  There are tonnes of links out there for you to google on this one.  These are children and babies Judy.  The real issue here is:  DO YOU CARE?   It was Saddam Hussein who prevented the money allowed to flow into Iraq for food and medical care from getting to the people. Stop blaming America for what every despot in the World has done, please.  This is totally irrational.   jt: To tell you the truth Jonathan I have enough to care about going on in my own backyard, I don't borrow trouble or get on the internet looking for it either because too many times we are presented with a slanted view according to who is doing the telling.   There is such a lack of education among you and Izzy regarding what the US has done and when it did it. How do you assume to know what anyone else’s “education” is, Jonathan?  Who made you judge and jury? Your “education” is liberal indoctrination with an American hatred bias.  Instead you want to concentrate on the good that the US has done.  It is such a silly argument that I never want to have to tell God I was involved in it.  "Why, yes God I know we were involved in killing tonnes of innocent people, but look at the ones we helped.  Doesn't it even out just a little?" Yes, Jonathan, ignore the fact that the USA has fed and cared for more foreigners than all the other nations in the world.  We realize that doesn’t mean a drop in the bucket to you. And you think you have no bias.   jt: What makes you think God will hold you responsible for what the US Government has been involved with and how do you know that God Himself isn't behind some or all of it.  He has historically used pagan nations to judge other nations and eventually they saw their own Waterloo also. The curse causeless does not come so we need more that a critical spirit and blame shifting to know what is going on .. I've heard some say that America will be the last domino to fall before we are prey to a One World Government.  I wouldn't exactly call Izzy and myself ignorant if I were you Jonathan; we are privy to a different kind of wisdom.    When I was young and got in trouble for doing something I didn't say to my mother, "But mom, I did make my bed today".  You see I am expected to make my bed, to do good and help others.  This is never the issue.  The issue is the mass amount of injustice in our world today.  I would appreciate hearing about the injustices America is doing in the world today. I’m tired of hearing about old (biased) history. How about foaming at the mouth about the forced abortions and child killings perpetrated today by the Chinese government? How about hating the Sudanese leaders? Why are there no bad guys in the world today except the USA?  I really think you are tunnel-visioned, Jonathan.  And what are you, personally, doing about any of these injustices going on in the world today except hating America?   jt: Who is the god of this world system?  Think about it?  Why would you expect anything else from the Father of Lies. Our responsibility is to be good ambassadors for a Kingdom that is not of this world - a city with a true foundation whose builder and maker is God.   Show me a pure-bred conservative and I will show you someone who is NOT involved in social activism, nor even cares.  Harsh I know but that is how I feel.  Prove me wrong. Jonathan Hughes  Jonathan, how many times have you participated, physically, in any social activism? How many times have you been written up in the news for such participation? I have been the object of news articles and radio/TV stories for my own personal activism. Have you? I have also been interviewed on TV, radio, and spoken to many churches personally. Have you? I have written two books, trying to encourage Believers in their faith.  Have you? If not, why are you blaming and accusing others? I will soon be mentioned in an article in the Jewish Light newspaper for a kindness done to a Jewess. I only mention these things because you have directly asked.  Put away your pointing finger and take a good look in the mirror. Izzy