RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: 9/11 overview

[Jonathan Hughes]

Title: 9/11 overview

Izzy, your first response to the helpful links posted by Lance was, “Do not post liberal propaganda on TT.”  Now that we know that you are the newly promoted moderator able to dictate TT’s content you then continue to respond to a thoughtful post by Marlin.  Your fear of liberal propaganda is interesting.  What are you afraid of?  If you were so certain in your political faith, liberal propaganda (read – the truth) should not affect you at all.  Again the discrepancy: I can call your view of God abhorrent and you barely blink.  A post that may intrude upon your political persuasions causes all sorts of cattiness to come out.  The question to be asked yet again is why do you hold your politics closer to your heart than your Christianity?  Why is one (neoconservative politics) so much more important to you than the other?  Why does one have an emotional reaction (always negative except in fawning worship sessions of your president)?    I think a lot about you.  You are obviously bright and care for your family.  You are obviously a lover of God and committed to Him.  What I don’t understand is why you are not open-minded in your quest for truth.  You see, politics are an untouchable area for you, one you refuse to study.  You see, I think that if you actually understood Bush and his colleagues, as a Christian you would steer the widest path around him as possible (and the second choice of Kerry is not much better; the country will still be led off the cliff, just a bit later).  What keeps you from reading books, articles etc. from the ‘other side’?  The mass of evidence is so much it is unbelievable.   I have a theory about forums such as this one.  I think that it is extremely rare to see someone actually change their mind.  The first barrier is an inability to admit that they were/are ever wrong.  Judy is a good example of this.  Judy has expressed a few times that her understanding of God has never been wrong; hence the certainty of all her posts being correct leading mischievous people to call her the ‘voice of God’.  I see far more humility in you Izzy and think that you would admit you were/are wrong if the situation demanded it.  This leads to my second barrier.  I do not believe that anyone will listen to another in a way that makes them vulnerable unless they have full respect for the person speaking.  This is perhaps the major reason true change rarely happens on Truthtalk no matter how much truth is being thrown around.  Three people have generated little respect on this forum; Lance and I for holding different views than most and sharing some of them with a coat of sarcasm (Judy and you also make posts dripping in the sarcastic) and DaveH for being Mormon and therefore being automatically placed outside the circle.  You yourself have expressed that you want nothing to do with our theology.  This is mostly due to wanting nothing to do with liberals which is a word you use in almost every other post (as your Christian version of a swear word).  Even your reading of Kruger’s book was just a caricature of thought instead of an honest reading with an open heart.  There is one person you respect on this forum – David Miller.  If David Miller had took to heart what we are saying (as he started to do before being having his unscriptual view of sin being outed by myself– he has posted once since) then you might think, “hey maybe this is worth understanding.” Now that he has left us for greener pastures I hold that there is no chance of you actually changing.  One person on this forum has changed in the last 6 months and that is John Smithson.  The reason?  John respected Lance and was open to hearing him.  The growth of John in the last six months is astounding.  Most of us are followers.  If a leader thinks a point is worthwhile considering, as followers we think a point is worthwhile considering.  With no leader to dialogue with there is no hope of change.  This is the real substance behind my ‘End of Truthtalk’ post.  Those that hold their opinions will continue to hold their opinions.  No real dialogue will occur.  Comments are made that our attitudes display hatred and condescension completely avoiding seeing the exact same attributes in yourself (and Judy).  Lance and I have turned to making shocking comments (like Lance’s story of punishment yesterday) in order to wake some of you up to what you actually believe.   Well this post has meandered enough and is not very well written.  More of a stream of conciousness.  My main question is, “How do we dialogue on this forum in a way that fosters the participants listening and hearing each other?”  How do we disagree with one another while still generating respect?  This is not currently happening.  If it isn’t changed it really will be the End of Truthtalk.   Jonathan   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 12:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: 9/11 overview   Marlin, Any chance the advance planning was done by the devil? Izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlin Halverson Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 9:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: 9/11 overview   Thank you for the link.    I never knew about the destruction of WTC-7.  I played the NBC and CBS videos posted on http://www.wtc7.net/.  No plane hit WTC-7.  To "pull" off a demolition of that magnitude, there had to be a great amount of planning in advance.    I also did not know about the gag order placed upon Sibel Edmonds.    --Marlin ----- Original Message ----- From: Lance Muir To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 6:22 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: 9/11 overview     ----- Original Message ----- From: Hughes Jonathan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: September 10, 2004 16:16 Subject: 9/11 overview   Interesting article covering an overview of 9/11 conspiracy, now referred to as the 9/11 Truth Movement. http://www.guerrillanews.com/intelligence/doc5233.html www.guerrillanews.com is actually a pretty good site overall and one I visit 4 or 5 times a week. Others that are worth while looking/wasting your time at: www.buzzflash.com www.propagandamatrix.com www.whatreallyhappened.com   Jonathan Hughes Supervisor of Application Support Kingsway Financial 905-629-7888 x. 2471 This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Thank you for your cooperation in connection with the above. Ce courriel ainsi que tous les documents s’y rattachant contiennent de l’information confidentielle et privilégiée. Si vous n’êtes pas le destinataire visé, s.v.p. en informer immédiatement son expéditeur par retour de courriel, effacer le message et détruire toute copie (électronique ou autre). 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