On what Authority do you CHANGE the Words of God?
Answer________________________
1 Tim 6:1 that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
You still have not told us how one might Blaspheme Doctrine
Answer________________________
Heresy means heresy except if if goes against your deeply held theology.
Changing the pure words of God to suit your tatse is a better example of scraping the bottom of the barrel
What version are you using mine says DAMNABLE HERESIES
Can you find ONE version that says "Damnable Factions" other than the David Miller version?
how about finding a "faction" anywhere in the chapter?
Seems to me it is ALL about the DAMNED
Wells w/o water
swift destruction
Dogs turned to own vomit
midst darkness reserved for them
cursed children
spots blemishes
Seems kind of personal.
UNjust
filthy conversation wicked
2 Pt 2:21 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Gal 5 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,...seditions, heresies
Why is Heresy in this list of personal behaviors?
So lets put your word in here
"FACTIONS", that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Seems seditions may be closer to what you are trying to prove.
Again a Personal condemnation awaits these Children of Didobedience
Aniother Great example of ISOgesis
David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kevin, this is a subject where the Greek CAN help you out. The English word for heresy has changed over time. The Greek word used in these passages, "hairesis," refers to factions, sects, cults. Galatians 5 does not list "false opinion" (=heresy) as a work of the flesh, but rather it is talking about factions. 2 Peter 2:1 (not 2:21) speaks of damnable factions created by the false teachings.Now as you are scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for a passage that excommunicates false teachers, or worse yet, burns them at the stake, please hear me when I say that I am not approving of false teaching or false teachers. Sound doctrine is very important. What I am trying to warn you against is treating the false teaching in the same way that you would treat sin.The false teachers themselves always seem to focus on getting the OPINIONS of others right. True doctrine is always trying to get the BEHAVIOR of others right.Furthermore, my previous point was trying to deal with how God has a certain kind of tolerance toward errant opinions that he does not manifest toward sin. The Sadducees had many erroneous opinions, but they worked in the Temple service just fine among those who had the more true opinions.The point is that God is not in favor of having the "Thought police" who would discipline those who have wrong thinking. He is in favor of having BEHAVIOR POLICE who discipline those who have wrong behavior. There needs to be some latitude for people to think, consider, and then make judgments. Now those who think poorly are not going to impress God much, but even those who think rightly don't have that much more of his attention. On the other hand, those who are perfect in love are highly esteemed by God.Peace be with you.
David Miller.----- Original Message -----From: Kevin DeeganSent: Monday, February 14, 2005 3:10 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cult behaviorFalse ideas precede false actionsheresy is sin and as such sends people to hellGal 5 says HERESIES along with witchcraft, idolatry, fornication Adultery are WORKS of the flesh2 Pt 2:21 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
If false Doctrine is not a sin that sends one to hell Please explain how one Blasphemes DoctrineHERESY is CONDEMNED it is DAMNABLE 2 Pt 2:21 and God's DOCTRINE can be BLASHEMED 1 Tim 6:1
David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Kevin wrote:
> First of all heresy and false doctrine
> are sin also
> Titus [sic] 1:10 For whoremongers, for them
> that defile themselves with mankind, for
> menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons,
> and if there be any other thing that is contrary
> to sound doctrine
Sound doctrine is that teaching which produces holiness. Read this passage
a little more carefully. It is not condemning those who have false ideas,
but those who have ACTIONS which are contrary to sound doctrine. A man who
considers it okay in a situation to steal is not condemned until he either
plans out a theft or actually commits a theft. In the same way, the person
who considers giving to a good cause is not righteous until he actually does
it. It works both ways.
Please read 1 Timothy 1:10 again and notice that sins are condemned, not
mistaken ideas. Sound doctrine is not defined as "true teaching" but rather
as that teaching which produces wholesome behavior (holiness, love, etc.).
God is not in favor of having "thought police."
Kevin wrote:
> The last time we talked about this I was not
> able to come up with excommunication for
> false doctrine??????? maybe you were involved
> with someone else.
It was not someone else. It was you and Dean, here on TruthTalk.
Kevin wrote:
> Consider them as heathen MT 18 And if he
> shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church:
> but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be
> unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Mat. 18 concerns how to handle personal sin, not false teaching.
Kevin wrote:
> AVOID False Doctrine is contagious RM
> 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark
> them which cause divisions and offences
> contrary to the doctrine which ye have
> learned; and avoid them.
The things that lead us to avoidance here are divisions and offenses. The
means by which they accomplish this is false teaching. We are to avoid
those who cause such divisions through false teaching, but note how mild
this is compared to the approach of 1 Cor. 5 with the fornicator, who is
excommunicated for his continued sin.
Kevin wrote:
> WITHDRAW from those Following Wrong tradition
> 2 Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name
> of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves
> from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after
> the tradition which he received of us.
Here he is talking about those who are walking disorderly. This is sin,
actions which are contrary to love. No mention of false teachings here.
Kevin wrote:
> CHARGE them that they stop Titus 1 that thou
> mightest charge some that they teach no other
> doctrine
Read Titus 1 carefully, and notice how he deals with false doctrine here.
It is not through excommunication or delivering them over to Satan. It is
by instruction and by rebuke. Titus cannot convince and exhort the
gainsayers if he is not associating with them to some degree.
Kevin wrote:
> WITHDRAW from Blasphemous Doctrine
> 1Tim 6 that the name of God and his doctrine
> be not blasphemed.
You seem a little mixed up here. 1 Tim. 6:1 is about servants giving honor
to their masters.
Kevin wrote:
> If any man teach otherwise, and consent not
> to wholesome words, even the words of our
> Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which
> is according to godliness... from such withdraw
> thyself DONT LET THEM IN
I think you are taking too much liberty in your translation to say, "Don't
let them in." Paul is urging Timothy not to waste time disputing with
people who are not walking in the truth. Nothing is said here about
excommunicating. He is explaining a leadership style. Timothy should focus
upon teaching sound doctrine to those who will receive it, and he should
withdraw from those who are teaching out of strife, envy, railings, and evil
surmisings. If teaching does not lead to holiness, it is worthless.
Now you have one thing right. There is a relationship between teachings and
actions. Discipline is brought to bear when the actions are manifested, not
when the ideas are formulated and expressed. First there is rebuke and
correction. Then there is marking and avoidance. By that time, the person
will be into so much sin that excommunication would become appropriate, not
for the false teaching, but for the sinful behavior manifested. Rightly and
carefully divide the Word of God and you will see that what I say to you
about this is true.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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