Re: [TruthTalk] Perfect Church?

[Dave Hansen]

Kevin Deegan wrote: NO NEED for a restoration! There was NO Total Apostacy. DAVEH:  Then what do you think was meant by Peter when he said.... Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. ........restitution of all things???  Is that not evidence that there must have been a falling away first, as prophesied by Paul (2Th 2:3) when he said there would be a falling away (apostasy)? The Church has existed thru ALL AGES, the very Gates of HELL DAVEH:  What do you think the Gates of HELL mean, Kevin?  IMO, it is a reference to being dead, rather than the lake of fire as I suspect many Protestants would consider it.  Which way do you see it, Kevin? will not prevail 'oer' it AND no need for delivering a Restored Faith since the True faith was ONCE delivered never LOST! ( and for you LDS - Joe never restored anything he just modified) DAVEH:  So do you believe the True Church existed at the time of Jesus, as well as at all other times (The Church has existed thru ALL AGES)?  Or...do you allow that it may have been corrupted by the grievous wolves that didn't spare the flock, as mentioned by Paul in Acts 20:29?     BTW....Reading vs 3 of Jude might suggest that the gospel message that was once delivered unto the saints has subsequently been lost, and now needs to be earnestly contended for....or, IOW...needs to be restored. Ep 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: John S. wrote: >> ... there was no time when the RIGHT CHURCH >> EXISTED except in the Mind of God and via the >> blood of Christ. The First Church was steeped >> in legalism. DAVEH: > Is this a commonly accepted theory of Protestantism? > LDS folks believe such thinking is flawed It is somewhat common in Protestant circles to think this way, but not all Protestants think this way. John's background is the Church of Christ, which is a restorationist movement somewhat like Mormonism. Many of the Church of Christ sects have been labled as cults by other Protestants just like Mormonism has. One of the themes in the Church of Christ is to get back to first century Christianity. Apparently, John has rejected much of the Church of Christ teachings, and one of them is apparently the theme that t here is some kind of perfect church that we need to restore. In considering this question of whether or not it is possible to have a perfect church, I consider the churches addressed by Christ in the book of Revelation. I notice that two of the churches were without rebuke. That tells me that there have been churches that were perfect. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.