Judy, you're partly right: I overstated it
when I said that there is absolutely no difference between
"#$%& you" and "You are of your father the devil". I really meant they
are potentially the same when used to express a certain attitude towards the
other person and ourselves. The same in the way that calling our
brother a fool and murdering him are the same. And yes, people have said these or similar things to others on TT
whose only "sin" is that they disagree.
Thank you Debbie for letting me know
that you see this. If DavidM spoke of sin I believe he would be
referring to attitude. I've seen Kevin point to lies and point to where they
come from and I've talked of the accuser myself in an effort to get a
certain one to see that he is
being used that way.
BTW, I do not see that at all in those
two 1 John verses.
1 John 2:28,29 speaks of the Second
Coming when He will appear as Judge and John is exhorting believers to deal
with their issues so as not to be "ashamed before Him at His coming"
There are too many scriptures like this for me to swallow the "Christ event"
squeaky clean scenario. Yes He paid the price for it to happen but we
must walk it out daily to overcome in this life. We must strive to
enter His rest.
What do you see in Romans 9: 33, 34?
These verses are a prophecy of Isaiah
which speaks of Jesus the Messiah.
But please note what I said re accountability
to God for how I live, what I do with the freedom given to me. Do I ever
shrink/feel shame at my behaviour? Yes. (Ask Lance.) Then I confess, turn,
and continue walking.
That's good Debbie, sounds like a normal
Christian walk to me thus far.
In contrast to David, I do need to do this more
than once on many things.
Why do you say "in contrast to
David?" If you were to get below the surface of his life I am sure he
would tell you that walks the same way we do. When he speaks of
perfection he is speaking of sanctification which he has said is a process
if I remember correctly. Also I believe there is a lot of
misunderstanding having to do with DM and his gifting. I don't remember what
kind of religious background Lance has, I know Caroline was raised Baptist,
and don't know if you have mentioned your denominational background
Debbie. I was raised ecclectic Methodist - wasn't taught a whole lot
but there was an advantage in that I wasn't taught against a whole lot
either. For a time when we first moved to Virginia we attended
Charismatic meetings and so I understand the operation of spiritual
giftings. Possibly some of you misunderstand David and take
offense when he is speaking prophetically which can sound harsh to
some. You can take or leave what he says but I would be careful about
stoning him over it.
Do I live in fear of punishment? No, but it
could be that I won't be given many, or any, cities to rule over--if I
may use that metaphor. In short, for the last time: I don't take sin
lightly. I acknowledge Christ as my Lord. I can't be any
clearer.
Glad to hear it Debbie. Maybe sometime
when I have the time I can more clearly articulate why this "Christ event"
"incarnational" doctrine concerns me as much as it does.
David, I too am grateful for the use of this
listserv.
Debbie
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 8:57
AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins
at the House of God
Debbie writes in part:
4. Extremely embarrassed to come before the Lord and have this brought
up: (a)
We are before
the Lord at all times. (b) Do you
really think he is logging incidents and shelving the ledger each time in
order to bring it all up later? Forgive me, David, but your god sounds very much like the
Accuser! God's agenda in saving us
is to change us into the people he wants--as soon as possible. Throughout
our lives, God draws our attention to things appropriate to our stage, and
may take startling measures to do so when necessary (see various posts of
Caroline's). The rest of what you say, about confessing and repenting,
seems to suggest you agree with this. Why would he be saving it up in order to nail us with it?
See #1. (c) There is
absolutely no difference between "#($&%"
and "You espouse a doctrine of
demons" or "You are of your father the devil". The latter are just "good
KJV biblical lingo". Besides, she wasn't saying it. She was quoting it.
:-)
Hi Debbie, you write:
We are before the Lord at all
times which is not what DM was referring to. We will also
stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ to answer for deeds we have done
in the flesh - and yes, He will bring these up later (1 John
2:28,29)
It's not as though he is "saving
it up in order to nail us with it" We are the ones saving
it up if we are not dealing with it now while we have a measure of
time.
I see a big difference between "#($&%" and the
terms DM uses. I understand "#($&%"
to be comic book cussing. Does it mean
something different in Canada? Also Caroline was "saying it" because
I've not seen anyone else on TT using this kind of stuff so it is
impossible for her to be quoting anyone here.